Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

There are many monopolies that Do Not Exist because of anti-trust LAW. Microsoft actually invested in Apple during it's rough non Steve Jobs years to keep it stable enough to keep Microsoft out of Anti-trust court. Think of our lack of computing options if there were no REGULATIONS. Apple would have been crushed during that time, their products were just expensive junk. There would be no iPod, iPhone, or iPad. We would be stuck with whatever Microsoft would deem good enough to call a new operating system. I'm not saying there would be no innovation from them, but now that Apple is strong again, Microsoft is having to work harder. There would not be that competition without government regulations.

Epic fail on the monopoly example.

Again SV... it say it's a fine utopian ideal....

But name one single instance in history... where there hasn't been tyranny... or some form of governance....

If you really dissect history... then it's almost universally controlled by tyranny... reagal, religious, political, military... or financial....

Even when the populous have confronted the established rule/rulers...and either overthrown them or gained concessions....

They've immediately been re-enslaved... and/or seduced.. by religious, military, financial, or economic forces... of the few....

Greed gathers around itself... the power to retain greed... and those with the most.... hold the the means and power to protect their positions....

History, is what it is... and history is clear.... dreams are all that are left.... and often that's the final seduction...

You prefer to keep the voicless and downtrodden where they are by paying them welfare ?
Welfare destroys the poor family, it rewards the broken family and removes all incentive to become self reliant. In a society without the burden of taxes and inflation and restrictive regulations, any one regardless of starting point has the opportunity to start a business. (It doesn't matter if this has actually existed before, simple reasoning and observations of the current system is sufficient to come to this conclusion)

I meant tyranny of the majority, resulting from majority rule with a federal government, sorry I wasn't clear. I will fix up the statement.

I am arguing for a society in which there is no tyranny of the majority. In which each person is inviolable, and nobody can force their views or preferences on others.
This would mean that if there was a government, it would be strictly limited to protecting the liberty and private property rights of the citizens.To wish for anything more is agression against others. That is fine if you wish that, just be honest about what it is.

Well he is either breaking the law and hasn't been caught yet, or doesn't make any money. I didn't say you can't get away with it. But if you are caught and get fined, refuse, go to court, refuse, at some point you will be forced to do something against your will. Unless you suggest that anyone who doesn't want to pay it, just stops ?
What if I can't afford to go to an Island ? Then I don't have any choice.
In a truly free society you could live your statist ways in your statist "commune" or what have you, and I could live my free life down the road. Neither of us forces each other to do anything. We are all happy.

There is nothing wrong with one company that provides most of the market with a particular good.
Like Microsoft. It just means they have the best product. As soon as their product stops being the best for its price, then competition will take its place.

So what if Microsoft buys apple? As long as they produce products that consumers want, there is no problem. Anyone can come along and make the next super phone.
As long as competition is not being prevented from occuring, there is no problem. Just because apple invented the pretty smart phone doesn't mean no one else was going to. It was invented because the technology available allowed it. It might have taken an extra year or two but it would have happened.

There will still be fraud and deceit and murder and rape and poor and rich. So hardly utopia


I agree totally. But do we not need the ideal to strive for?
Do we not strive for a society with no theft and murder and rape ?
Why not of a society that has a smaller government, like in times past.
Or lower taxes, which creates more individual wealth such as in countries such as Liechtenstein or Monaco. These are in the top 5 GDP per capita in the world, with low tax rates. Liechtenstein also has one of the best literacy rates in the world. It is not a coincidence.

Government is getting bigger, are you not even a little concerned about where this will end ?

Not aslong as I can take part, wich I still can here.(Norway)
Multiple partys to choose and/or join.
I don't have to be rich or belong to a priveliged family tribe etc.

I can see how a US national can feel the urge, or need to revolt dough, do to the huge differences between rich/poor.

I'm a bit confused about an Australian being so oppossed to gowernement as such, I allways had the impression, that you had a pretty fair and equal soscial/political system?

I don't think there is "A" perfect system but IMO the super capitalists have undermined the economy, over and over, in a way that tells me you need to regulate the "free market" to a surtain extent.

cheers

Where does the Scandinavian countrys fit in ? to your theory
We have the higest income and fortune tax in the world as far as I know?
I think you find us amongst the top ranking countrys in GDP per capita and literacy,
is that a coincidence then ?

cheers

SV... I'm certainly not against smaller government... but with economies... and more particularly trade/businesses now global... and financial cartels underpinning it all...

I just don't agree with your basic premise.. that the size of government is the all pervasive factor...

Not only do governments no longer control their money supply.... neither do they control their economies... or have the power to do so...

Both have usurped by global corporations... and more particularly... by the banks/financiers...

And the banks/finaciers.... are the cancerous heart of all the worlds problems... and shrinking government(s)... might help domestic finances.. and even GDP....

But it wont make one iota of difference to the financial powers... and finance/money... is based completely on the creation of debt... with no underlying productive value... skimming "profit" off virtual transactions....

Inflationary... until the bills ultimately have to be called in... and then the public pays....

It is not when one company provides most of the market... It is when they corner the market and prevent others from joining. The ONLY thing that prevented Microsoft from doing just that was Anti-trust law.

http://thesaurus.yourdictionary.com/environmentalist#
http://www.yourdictionary.com/watermelon?#

cheers

How?
How do they "corner" the market and prevent others from competing ?

Large companies can avoid competition through their larger bank accounts, one simple way is to just acquire the competition. This is a pattern that Microsoft followed well throughout the eighties and nineties. As someone who works in an industry that is nearly monopolized by a billion-dollar company I can tell you it is hard to compete even when you have a product that is superior in several ways to the large company's product. Once a company becomes much larger than the competition they can simply push out other companies, by outspending them on marketing and advertising and acquiring mindshare through $. After awhile the tendency to monopoly is irresistible. After that there is no "free market".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18944097
.............bring on the revolution

I could not have said it better myself Dave!

For some reason, I am seeing SV as a pimple faced kid behind a computer trolling us.

Either that or SV seriously needs to get some life experience.

SV, your comment about welfare sounds like government propaganda. I know of many people who have chosen to be on welfare whilst working cash in hand. Hardly the soul crushing predicament you write about.

In you world without the government I could walk around killing people and as long as I have a bigger knife/gun/bomb I am ok.