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PostPosted: Jul 19th, '12, 15:48 
The Chinese economy has changed from "communist" to "capitalist"... virtually "overnight....

And it is very possible to setup a privately owned company in China.... but it's under the umbrella of the government... and within it's economic 5 year plan doctrines...

The Chinese have analysed the capitalist and financier model... and are now playing the game... often better than those that supposedly designed it .. and promote it as a "free market" and/or "free trade" system...

The Chinese know that it's no such thing... and as such can be controlled within their political, national, and international aspirations...


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PostPosted: Jul 19th, '12, 16:20 
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Yes, still a long way from what could be described as totally capitalist or a free market.
They did this because they know that production and trade is what generates wealth, despite their perverted version of it.
Communism it is not.


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PostPosted: Jul 19th, '12, 16:24 
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The People's Republic of China is a single-party state governed by the Communist Party of China.[15]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China


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Government type: Communist state

http://www.cia.gov/library/publications ... os/ch.html

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According to CIA World Factbook, China's government is still a Communist State
According to CIA World Factbook, China's government is still considered a Communist State. However the source does note some economic changes since the 1970s (see below). A country's economic policy is only one part of it's government, so just because economic policies are changing doesn't necessarily mean the system of government has changed. See below for CIA World Fact Book's discussion of China's economic policy:


It is still classified as a communist country.


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PostPosted: Jul 19th, '12, 16:44 
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It is the economic policies that this particular debate is about though isn't it ?
You are claiming China's communism has been no restriction to its economic growth.
I am saying it is China's economic reforms that has enabled it to grow as it has.
You are not going to find an example where highly restrictive government and regulations has resulted in prosperity for the people, only the opposite can produce that.

There are examples of communist countries making great technological achievements in small sectors, however this is always at the expense the people's quality of life.


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PostPosted: Jul 19th, '12, 16:49 
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Ummmm, China.......

They still have a very restrictive government, just look at their control over simple things like media and internet.


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PostPosted: Jul 19th, '12, 17:16 
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You are claiming China's communism has been no restriction to its economic growth.
I am saying it is China's economic reforms that has enabled it to grow as it has.

Sure... but it's happened under a so called "communist" centrally planned authority.... deliberately planned...

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You are not going to find an example where highly restrictive government and regulations has resulted in prosperity for the people, only the opposite can produce that.

Bullocks.... the Chinese economic miracle has ocurred not only despite being "highly restrictive".... but because it was mandated...

The growth of a middle class in recent China... has been a carefully constructed and decreed strategy...

Having developed the economic wealth of a vast consumer base... the Chinese are now turning the focus... deliberately, and planned... to becoming a self sufficient consumer based market... and away from the initial export centric model that has acheived it's goal...

Sure there are still inequities in the wealth base of the Chinese population... but those inequality gaps are closing in China... whereas in the Western world,... they're expanding...

Quote:
There are examples of communist countries making great technological achievements in small sectors, however this is always at the expense the people's quality of life.


As history has shown... and so the Chinese have analysed....

The rest of the world might need China for economic growth... and in terms of your arguement... for "freedom"....

But China doesn't need the rest of the world for either... and frankly doesn't give a bloody toss what anyone else thinks...


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PostPosted: Jul 19th, '12, 17:52 
By your argument SV.... China could not have, or ever acheive economic success.... because of the restrictive nature of it's "governance"....

But it has... despite it.... which would either suggest... that the "restrictions" weren't as severe as you might think...

OR.... because the system, as regulated as it might be... not only allowed it... but planned and fostered it....

The Chinese economy didn't just arrive delivered by storks... like babies are...


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PostPosted: Jul 19th, '12, 18:07 
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watremelons are yummy..


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PostPosted: Jul 19th, '12, 18:53 
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RupertofOZ wrote:
By your argument SV.... China could not have, or ever acheive economic success.... because of the restrictive nature of it's "governance"....

Basically yes, I find it hard to believe you don't know what I mean Rupe.

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But it has... despite it.... which would either suggest... that the "restrictions" weren't as severe as you might think...

My whole point is that because the restrictions have been lifted to a great degree, China was able to change so much.

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OR.... because the system, as regulated as it might be... not only allowed it... but planned and fostered it....
By allowing new companies to form and trade with the rest of the world. Motivations are irrelevant really, what matters is what occurs.

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The Chinese economy didn't just arrive delivered by storks... like babies are...

Thanks for the tip mate ;)


Mr Wiki wrote:
Economic reforms taking advantage of market principles began in 1978 and were carried out in two stages. The first stage, in the late 1970s and early 1980s, involved the decollectivization of agriculture, the opening up of the country to foreign investment, and permission for entrepreneurs to start up businesses. However, most industry remained state-owned. The second stage of reform, in the late 1980s and 1990s, involved the privatization and contracting out of much state-owned industry and the lifting of price controls, protectionist policies, and regulations, although state monopolies in sectors such as banking and petroleum remained. The private sector grew remarkably, accounting for as much as 70 percent of China GDP by 2005, a figure larger in comparison to many Western nations. From 1978 to 2010, unprecedented growth occurred, with the economy increasing by 9.5% a year. China's economy became the second largest after the United States.


Without the economic reforms, it is clear this growth would not have happened.


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PostPosted: Jul 19th, '12, 19:00 
SuperVeg wrote:
Without the economic reforms, it is clear this growth would not have happened.

But your premise was that China was to restrictive to allow economic growth...

In fact it not only allowed it... it deliberately planned and fostered it.... within a "restrictive" form of governance...

You put the end result in front of the very premise you argue... to prove your premise... when in fact it shows your analysis and fundamental premise is either wrong... or not necessarily correct...


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PostPosted: Jul 19th, '12, 19:27 
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RupertofOZ wrote:
But your premise was that China was to restrictive to allow economic growth...

WAS too restrictive, but its economic reforms that I mentioned has allowed it to become what it is.

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You put the end result in front of the very premise you argue... to prove your premise... when in fact it shows your analysis and fundamental premise is either wrong... or not necessarily correct...

No, as far as I can tell we both basically agree on what China was, what it is and how it got there :dontknow:


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PostPosted: Jul 19th, '12, 19:34 
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watremelons are yummy..

+1


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PostPosted: Jul 19th, '12, 19:40 
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nat wrote:
Charlie wrote:
watremelons are yummy..

+1

+1 :grin:

Sent from my U8510 using Tapatalk 2


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PostPosted: Jul 19th, '12, 19:47 
So SV... you're actually saying that government restrictions... or restrictive governments... aren't necessarily all bad after all....

And can actually provoke good economic growth....

So in the end it actually comes down to good governance... not the political "system"...

I thought the whole thrust of your philosophy was basically to abolish essentially all governance... as they were/are an impediment to free economics..


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PostPosted: Jul 19th, '12, 21:22 
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SV is saying that China could grow even faster without the lessened restrictions they have from the government now. The ideal is an "ungoverned" economy.


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