Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

+1

I was kind of hoping to find out.. who weren't socialists these days.... seems everyone to the left of Gneghis Khan and Atilla the Hun... are all socialists....

Hell... the libertarians... and even most of the far right reckons the government is socialist these days... and that's even when they're Republican... or not so Liberal in our case....

+1

I saw SV and wall of text so I did my usual....

Read the shorter responses to confirm I wasnt missing much...

Apparently dental companies now have plans where you can get a loan to have work you can't afford done. You wind up paying back the bank plus interest. I'd be surprised if this new hospital wasn't working the system this way - it works in some ways but not others for the people getting services. Poor people can't afford insurance so they have to take out loans - the rich get richer....

If you dont like it. Stop commenting in it.

I dont know what you get out of writing +1 in subjects you have no opinion in, other than wanting to feel that you are part of a discussion that you are apparently not interested in.

I have opinions. I just prefer people not to add to the information/misinformation pollution flying around. The statement I supported in no way correlates with what you have inferred.

+1 concisely supports a statement or comment without needing to construct an unnecessary rant. Are you against +1 in general, or just when used to support a view differing from yours? It seems something odd to object to.

+1

Seems odd that insurance came about because people recognized that they couldn't individually pay for certain things but as a group they could spread the risk. Now those who can afford these problems the least can't afford the insurance - make sense - not really.

Or did it come about more because someone saw an opportunity to make money...

A better search would be “fundamentals of Austrian Economics” you can spend all week quoting websites that denounce something, but until you actually spend the time to understand it no one is going to benefit.

All of the “searching” you did on Chile didn't seem to uncover anything that was not already aligned with your pre-determined view. Ill just keep it in point form, I'm already over the word limit for many readers..
The leader Prior to Pinnochete was Salvador Allende and his corrupt, illegal and unconstitutional socialist government. There was extremely high inflation. (140% in 1972) – NOT libertarian

If a free market took place after a socialist or otherwise controlled economy it is not expected that instantaneously everything would be perfect and it is absurd to think so. There WOULD be bankruptcies, economic turmoil and changes in the value of the currency.
If the United States suddenly became a free market economy then there would be many bankruptcies. The US Postal Service would certainly go bankrupt (it nearly is already) and almost every other company/organisation that is supported by the government.
These bankruptcies and the associated suffering would be totally necessary to rectify the mal-investment that the government created.
This will allow capital to go where it is needed more (more profitable)
To claim that the free market does not work because of short term economic downturn and govt supported industries go bankrupt is a strawman.
Wages did go down, however this is the logical conclusion when Allende had unsustainable minimum wage laws

Using economic growth as we do to to measure the “health” of an economy also has its flaws.
REAL growth of an economy is actually quite slow, growth brought about by deficit spending ALWAYS results in a boom, and booms ALWAYS bust and create recession/depression for the simple reason that the growth is not real growth

Also just knowing economic growth and wages is not enough to indicate the health of an economy. The cost of living is the other necessary factor. If wages go down 25% and the cost of living goes down 35% then everyone is better off (richer). In fact if free market money were allowed to prevail (preventing increases in the money supply) then wages would go down, and so would the cost of living as the value of the currency actually increases (very mild deflation) This is a result of more goods and services (as economy grows) chasing the same amount of money.

Other Reasons the Chilean economy did not do as well as it could have.
Worker intimidation is not a free market policy
Price fixing the currency is also not free market policy, neither is land confiscation.
Any economic reform forced upon the populace by force can also not be called a free market policy

The ONLY way to recover from a depression is to repudiate the debt. This will result in bankruptcies and short term economic hardship.

So back to EBs question about an example of a libertarian society. Has there been a strict example of one.. no. But there have been times with smaller government and lower taxes. Researching Pinnochete in Chile actually is an example of the free market improving the economy, despite all the lies written about it.

Is there any example in history of a society with zero murder and rape and theft ?

Does this mean that we shouldn't try to have less murder and rape and theft ?
Or does this mean we should just allow the INCREASE of murder and rape and theft (if that were the case) and pretend it is all too hard to make things better.?

To flip this discussion around I ask of the statists contributing to this thread:
Where has the state succeeded in regards to the aspects of our lives it says it is working on?
The state takes on numerous challenges supposedly for the benefit of the populace: managing the economy, peaceful coexistance with others on the planet, elimination of poverty, underage drinking, illegal drugs, health care, family services, etc.
Can any of these endeavors undertaken by our beloved state be deemed successful ?
The list of state failures is exactly long as the list of state run programs.
Why should the burden of proof of the success of a free society be placed on previous examples (non of which are really considered failures, however there are numerous examples of the ultimate state run society failing terribly) when the current system with its INCREASING state is such a failure ?

Superveg... all the so called "free market" economies.... are already bankrupt.....

They're all hostages of the financial system.... and "free market" capitalism isn't going to change that....

The system is entirely based upon the financiers... and there's no way they're going to allow any change...

Rupert you obviously don't understand the meaning and implications of the term "free market"

[quote]Superveg... all the so called "free market" economies.... are already bankrupt.....[quote]

Which free market economies are you referring to ?

+ fookin 1 you all give me a headache and roadrage

you probably shouldn't be reading forums while you are driving