Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

<sigh>

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/14056079/feral-fish-reach-perth-rivers

It's disappointing that people dump these things in our waterways. I guess they get too big or the novelty wears off. I am constantly disappointed and dismayed at peoples ignorance and apathetic attitude towards the natural environment and their general lack of respect for biodiversity. On the other hand perhaps there is also a lack education for the community on these issues as well.

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And that's why we end up with legislation that bans even fish that might not be overly invasive or destructive...

And why blanket bans were proposed on chiclids and koi/carp... and bitterly opposed by many aquaria keepers...

Sadly... many of the exotic species released come from the same ranks of that group though...

And just as sadly... I've even seen similar attutides about other fish stocks.. and possible releases expressed even on the aquaponic forums...

Then there are species that have become completely settled into an environment like the Redfin have in every waterway around here. Dont know of any fisherman that are worried about that though as Redfin are easy the best tasting fresh water fish around.

If you dam and weir a river
Fill it with fertilizer
Salt it
Add pesticides
Make temporary wetlands permanent

Then it's not native habitat anymore
And you can't expect native fish to thrive

At Least something is living in it

Can't agree with you on this. I agree that natural systems have been highly altered and degraded by peoples actions however it is ludicrous to allow exotic fish species to take over and destroy what's left of our native fish stocks/aquatic life. We should strive to fix our mistakes and make things better not just turn a blind eye.

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While redfin are never going to be eliminated from our environment there are still some areas (not very many) where they are not present and in those areas there are surviving native fish populations. I regularly find people who talk about adding redfin to those waters because there are no fish there to catch.

Do you punch them in the face? I would...

There is a deep alarm in the Australian psyche about being invaded

Is it a deep mark of guilt on the heart of a nation for the theft of a continent?
Or just our deep fear of being a European outpost far far from home?
Who knows

But it's certainly not based on fact

We've introduced tens of thousands of species to this continent
So actually increasing overall biodiversity significantly

Most losses we've had have come from removing not adding species.
The loss of critical weight range animals is not attributable to cat , which more than likely arrived 400 years ago or more
Or to foxes
But rather to the removal of the dingo and wedgtail and an effect call mesopredator release
Essentially big predators kill smaller rivals and favour small animals
While dingos also control goats

No introduction of any species to Australia has been attributed with an extinction
Even prickly pear only spread so fast because its loved by NATIVE animals As food
Same with lantana
The cane toad has not caused a single extinction, yet is hated! Why??

It's very hard as an ecologist to break through people's prejudices
Especially in places where the propaganda is very xenophobic
And doesn't face new understandings in ecology of island biogeography, extinction causes and the dark role of politics and semantics in biological science.
But we are an aquaponics forum

I'm not advocating mass releases of aquatic organisms

Yet I am saying that the way we officially react is bizarre
And predictable

The language used is straight out of the yellow peril or red under the bed days of the 20th century
It always shifts blame to the reaction of another organism to conditions we've created
Ignoring biological realities associated with ecological shifts

Carp get blamed for the decline in native fishspecies In the Murray darling
When all scientific enquiry points to other factors
Carp are eaten by the natives, and when floodplain dynamics are restored the natives increase and breed

People freak over tillapia in northern rivers yet I. These rivers are some of the most voracious predators like barrammundi and crocodiles
Which can only be differentiated from Nile perch by genetic testing and a scale count!
Across the tropics tilapia and barra/ perch coexist happily

It's just not rational

How could we argue with that?... I definitely don't want to be seen as being xenophobic... that would be so un-PC... so I'm off to find some Tilapia to add to my local lake!

There are several exotics in Australia with conservation value too

We have the only wild camels
We have the largest wild herds of banteng cattle
The tilapia here is pure breed of Oreochromis mossambicus which is endangered in its original habitat
Radiata pine is naturally very restricted and vulnerable
Tagasaste is restricted to a few islands in the canary islands
Even sparrows in Europe are in decline

Of course you could add tilapia to a local lake
But they aren't going to survive or be noticed unless environmental conditions are modified to favour them! So your efforts would be pointless!
As is your attempt at sarcasm

If you really want to show a hardline stance for natives
Why not start by giving your house back to the aboriginals
And jump on a slow boat back to wherever you reckon you are native to?

I think Rupert nailed it.

One thing I never did before stumbling upon AP was browsing the italian equivalent of Gumtree in the "Pets" section under the fish species.

What I have come to realize, after reading one too many insertions, is that aquaria fanatics are very quick to "outgrow" their current setup, most insertions being along the lines of "I need to get rid of all these fish because I'm changing the biotype" or "switching to marine/freshwater" or something along those lines. I wouldn't put it past many people (and there are actual videos on YouTube of people doing it) to go find the closest pond or lake or whatever and free their fish.

Our main problem here anyway is procambarus clarki - Lousiana crawfish - (more than any alien fish... I mean carp were actually introduced by the Romans so we can't really complain to them now can we...) and those were introduced after escaping from a farmer and are now causing major damage.

Sorry, rant over. It's 3 am, bear with me!

Unfortunately, the answer to the original question is... very irresponsbile.

Jakartagreen Mr Damage

England is of course going to have a rapidly changing flora and fauna
It's gone from ice waste land to what it us today within human history

A clean slate
Almost everything thing there flew swam or blew in
Or was subsequently carried

There's only 30 odd native tree species in the whole country, all coming from Europe after the ice
There's more biodiversity on my university campus than the whole country in flora and fauna
Wiki says about trees
"Britain is relatively impoverished in terms of native species. For example, only thirty-one species of deciduous tree and shrub are native to Scotland, including ten willows, four whitebeams and three birch and cherry.[20][Notes 3]"