Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Plan B, Try running two rows of IBC's / tote two high down each side of the container. Top totes for growing, bottom tote for fish. As they are self supporting and stack it solves a lot of problems. As a container is 2400mm wide you get a 600mm walkway down the middle. Just have to hook them all up using bulkhead connectors. Means you could run multiple grades of multiple species too.

Not quite as efficient use of space as your plan, but has a a number of pluses.

On the structural strength issue. The weight is carried to the corners but distributed through the whole structure - particularly the side walls. In effect the whole container is an RHS. If you cut the roof out the sides will bow unless you leave structural stringers in place, and so on.

That's a very good idea i might use it for a hatchery! but i need the large tank space to get the fish to grow big fast.




The roof of the container doesn't have beams running across the 8f like the base. the roof it self is not that strong (it moves when you walk on it). I want to cut out the flimsy sheet metal part and leave the current beams running the length of the container intact. Then wield beams across (8f)where the bottom of the grow bed will be(new position of roof) to take the weight.

Interesting concept there Damian. Basic principals seem fine to this mug, but I will ask, do you need the growbed to be 2.5 feet deep? Why not reduce it to 12 to 18 inches and basically cut the weight you need to support in half - lets face it most IBC based growbeds are cut to 12 inches deep and unless you have plants that need the depth the rest is dead space and weight that you could do without.

Woz

Woz

It's not dead space, mate. It still provides biofilter volume, which is the primary aim of the growbed.

No it is necessary to support the container where the loads are which in the case of a FT or GB is just about every where.

Not that I want to rain on peoples parades but I have done the numbers on using shipping containers and it just wasn't economical compared to alternatives.

As a structure to house a system there are better, more efficient and cheaper alternatives which is why people use greenhouses. I suppose if you got the container for free that would change things but there is still a lot of work doing all the modifications.

As a structure to work as either a GB or FT then again there are alternatives that worked out cheaper. Again if you can get the containers for free and do the welding and structural mods yourself then it could work out but you are constrained to a shipping container sized module. This may work out for what you want to do or it may not?

Dude you ent raining on my parade, thanks for the creative criticism, it helps to have many different views. makes me think . My reason for wanting to use them is, mostly that I have one and Well almost everyone can get a shipping container so I think something like this, if successful will be replicated quickly, I didn’t get the container for free it cost me $4000us I can get a fish tank around the same size for around the same money. So the cost of the container is ok for what I want to do. it is the cost of the modifications that I am worried about. I don’t think "constrained" is the best word mate, I mean a shipping container is a standard size word over meaning you have a worldwide infrastructure so you could move the system and do anything you can imagine easy. If need be there is also the resale value of the steel. Exsample I am thinking about when it is time for filling the grow bed with media it would be nice if i could get a crane to turn it over and dump the old media and refill with a backhoe easily.



I got mines supported on the ends and centers is this enough or should i add support every 10 feet or so?



Reason for 2.5 feet of grow bed is because I use coconut husk as a media, the dept is required for it to work, that And I could grow a tree if I wanted , hey you don’t have to use the full 2.5 feet you could use only 1 if that is all you wanted but its better it have it than to need it. and as chillidude suggest you have a larger bio filter volume.

if i get this to work i want about 100

Only if you have already turned it into a fish tank or GB. If you are using it just as everyone else uses them then about every 10' would be fine I guess.

For a small system as in one inside a container there are just so many better ways of making a structure that is cheaper and better suited to housing fish and growing plants.

For a large system where the containers are a component you are really looking at a commercial sized system and then you have to think on commercial terms. Even if you're planning some tree hugging feed the world hippy project you have to think in commercial terms because commercial thinking involves being efficient in the building of the system and in the running of the system. Obviously if a system is to make money it has to offer a return on investment (low startup cost relative to ongoing income) and have a healthy margin so that you can be bothered (to pay back start up capital and give people a living). If it is to provide food to the hungry masses in africa you don't want to saddle them with a system that involves a lot of labour even though labour is really cheap. You want to free people from just having to survive (lots of work getting food) so that they can have extra time to play as kids (no need for child labour), get educated, etc.

If the containers are kept whole (good structural integrity just cut the doors in half or man holes in the roof) with a FT liner in them then to work on the fish you have to get inside the tank. Even just to have a look at how things are going involves going for a swim and disturbing the fish. Not a good idea.

If the containers are halved then you have to add structural support which needs to be substantial. Ties accross the top can be relatively small but they really interfere with the harvesting and grading operations. Someone said they thought this would not be a big deal but commercial AQ people think it would be and would significantly add to labour costs. I defer to their experience. If you are adding external support then essentially you are only using the walls of the container as a skin which is supported by an external structure. This is an expensive way of providing the structural skin to support a FT liner.

For example a 40' shipping container has 69m2 of walls if you include the doors (which you probably couldn't use). If you can get the container for $2500 (going rate around here) then that works out at $36/m2 just to provide the raw materials for the structural skin. There are so many other materials that cost less per m2 and you don't have to do anything to them before you use them (like oxy cutting the container). Granted due to the thickness and profile of the plate used in the walls of containers the structural support system you will need would be less than ply wood, corrugated iron or other materials but loads on structural members have exponential effects so while the spacings between members may be larger they won't be larger by much. (this is why modern houses are built the way they are, many small members are more efficient than few big members).

For the material price of containers to equal say corrugated iron (around $11/m2) you have to be able to get the containers for under $800 each. Even if you could get the containers for free it still may not be worth it because the the work involved in cutting the containers, cleaning the cut edges and moving them into place once cut. How long would that take? How much is the time of the people who are going to be doing the work worth?

N.B. the thin steel on the roof is under tension to hold the walls where they are, therefore it does not need to be thick to do it's job. You might be able to cut bits out of the roof on a hit and miss basis BUT I strongly recommend you have a structural engineer check what you propose to do to the container; cutting out the roof massively alters the structural integrity of the unit.

Also note that the walls transfer the floor load stress (compression and tension) to the corners of the container. This is why I said a shipping container is like a RHS - rectangular hollow section. If you cut bits out of it you alter the structural integrity of the whole - that said some you can away with and some you can't, but get an engineer to check before cutting. In a former life I was a builder who worked with containers making modular stackable housing and disaster relief housing. So I have a pretty good idea of what you can do with them. Also converted them to grain silos with one end raised at 39 degrees so the grain would flow.

I've spend many hours cruising the net looking at alternative housing done with shipping containers.. Very interesting stuff..

http://www.treehugger.com/sustainable-agriculture/worlds-largest-rooftop-fish-and-vegetable-farm-planned-berlin.html

Ze Germans are doing some interesting work with shipping containers, not sure if this has been posted yet.

http://www.ecf-center.de/en/ecf-containerfarm/

Here's the actual site. I can see these as being a cool gimmick for restaurant owners to plop one in the parking lot to raise produce, as they shuffle in the usual produce the traditional way, who knows it may make a dent.

Yeah.. it's based on the "urbanfarmers" concept... not sure if it will make a dent.. except in someones wallet...

30 years or so ago hydroponics went through a phase were it was finally starting to get some commercial legs and there were a stack of people offering "turnkey" systems that would grow masses of top quality plants by just following simple instructions or recipes. Hydroponic producers the world over now know that such systems do not exist. If they don't exist for hydro I can't see them existing for AP.

I guess we don't exist here then....