Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Hi guys. Thanks for all your responses.

Replying to all in order:
Charlie: pump is now on full time. pH of natural scheme (tap water) is 7.4 here, which is the same readings I've been getting all along.
Faye: I spoke to you in detail on Friday. I agree with you on the chlorine gassing out of the water, but due to the insistance of the Woodvale staff member, got the water ager 'just in case'. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, particularly when knowing when to salt fish. There seems to be conflicting ideas with marron and salting however, which is why I'm hesitating on salting so far. Re: the humonia, read it on a forum here and it seemed to make sense at the time. I'm sleep deprived (newborn ) so things aren't falling into place like usual. Ironically ammonia readings have been zero or close to (0.25ppm max so far).
Bunson: no idea on the infection. See below regarding #6.
vlt: trout were 10-13cm from Woodvale Fish & Lily farm. re: pH drop - as a scientist, I'd say it's either a bad sample or a typo. Given I've got three kids to juggle, I'd guess I was distracted when I sampled. All other tests have been consistently 7.4 pH. Re: reading instructions: considering the amount of instructions I've read over two university degrees, including university level chemistry, I'd say I've got a fair idea on following instructions and titrations. Your call. Agree on your statement about advice from BYAP - "set it up, add the fish, feed sparingly and measure parameters daily". That's what I've done.
Mr Damage: Good advice, thank you. I read that the first AP cycle is never 100% successful, hence my reasoning to get 10 x 10cm trout knowing that not all would survive to summertime. Might do the 20cm trout thing in 2 months time if need be
hooked: sorry to hear your identical story . Nitrite's are still reading 0 however, unlike your example. +1 on the learning example - so true.
borby & tojo: thanks again for the good advice. I suspect I'll be saying the same thing in a few years hopefully.
bunson: see below.
Aquastud: sounds like a plan. Thanks mate.
Edgewateraqua: much like hooked, I'm sorry to hear your story. I suspect it may be a bad batch (? or hatch???) of trout that they sourced. #4 (in my pic above, on the bottom) and soon to be #6 have the issues that you've described! Let me know how you go, a 50+% mortality rate for me, 80+% rate for you and hooked is unacceptable. Granted mine is a new, uncycled system but yours aren't.

Breaking news: Went out again an hour ago, and it looks like we've got a #6. Poor guy has gills outside his body, white stuff on it, and swimming around poorly. I'll check up on #6 tomorrow morning and hopefully the poor guy's still alive. The two biggest ones look like they're swimming strongly, whilst the marron are happy doing their thing - climbing & hiding around the traps, and generally chilling out.
Test results are pH 7.4 and nitrites 0.00

With the benefit of hindsight, yeh I should've waited - however the advice I got from the chap at BYAP that Day 2 was ok, which is what I did.
Moving forward, as our illustrious leader says too often, I'll keep an eye on the system and maybe give Woodvale a call to see what the go is. As I mentioned above, if it was only me, I'll cop it, but the fact that two others are having identical issues with their trout from the same source interests me to say the least.

Thanks again guys, keep you posted

Dean

Just somthing that hasn't already been said, to me a teaspoon of food for 10 (or less now) small trout isn't exactly feeding sparingly especially if they aren't eating it within a few minutes or spitting it out.

All the best with the system set-up Dean. By no means was my intention critical, and that is what makes this forum such a brilliant source of help and information. Time is your best friend with this process and there are always mixed ideas out there. Don't be in a rush, it can be upsetting seeing a new toy having problems.

Salting your tank however would be highly recommended given that your fish have had white stuff on them. Salt is essential, especially in the early stage as it helps the fish maintain their slimy and protective coats and will definitely minimise the casualty rate.

Good luck and keep us posted.

I hope its just my inexperience with trout but it dose seem like something might be fishy with Woodvale.
Pardon the terrible pun.
I visited them 2 weeks before I bought the fish and was directed to a pond near the front with some large looking trout in it so decided to cycle for another few weeks to be safe.
When i went back to buy the fish however i was directed to pick the trout from some ponds of smaller trout at the back of the netted pond area.
I was a little puzzled at the time and didn't really question it but now in not so sure.

Would have visited this weekend but they are not open Sundays
Its the only day i can get anything done.

Will have to try one day this week and will post any findings.

In addition to what could be bacterial infection, sounds like it's also been attacked by (white) cotton mold.

Salt the system to 3-5ppt (2.1 - 3.5kg of pool salt in 700L) as a general anti-bacterial and anti-fungal action for the entire system. Change half the water daily and re-salt to maintain the concentration. If you've got something from which to make a quarantine tank, like an esky, then add an aerator and salt to 8-10ppt (800g - 1kg pool salt per 100L) and give the affected fish a few days in your ICU. Change the water and re-salt daily.

Salting your system shouldn't adversely affect the marron already in the system:
They wont be in the system brine for too long as soon as the problem clear up you can flush the system and dilute to 1ppt salt.

Three people with new systems have bought fingerlings from the one supplier and each has lost a number of their fish within the first two weeks of adding them to their new systems... and consequently believe there is a common denominator in their fish losses... I must say I have to agree, there is definitely a common denominator!

I've just been doing some reading that goldfish ulcer disease (furunculosis, so my spelling was close) is not actually known to exist in trout in WA and any occurrence is a notifiable event; even though it is relatively widespread in goldfish, or at least in fish that I have previously owned.

Hi Deanothe,

Sorry about your fish mate, it's not nice to have fish deaths that's for sure....

I first cycled my trout system in the middle of winter over here and it took me 6 weeks..... Because the water temps were cold...I've found, when the water temps get below 15 C the bacteria struggle to build up...It also concerns me the only filtration you appear to have is approx 200 litres of media filled grow bed....The other concern I have is your addition of chemicals to your system...Personally I would not be adding anything....apart from salt ATM.

Could you list what chemicals you added so far please?
We can deal with humonia, salt is good, but it's the others I'm concerned about....

What's your readings for today?

Water temp
pH
Ammonia
Nitrites
Nitrates

I would expect your ammonia levels to increase from now on, particularly that you added humoinia, but also because of the natural process of "cycling" your system.

The ammonia will rise and peak, may be a slower process ATM seeming though it's cold, but it will happen....eventually, after your ammonia peaks and drops then the nitrites will rise and peak, once again, heading into winter time it could take a while, but they will rise peak and drop it's not till you have both dropping to around zero that your system has cycled then the nitrites will kick in.

If you can add more bio filtration to your system that would be good if not, just run 5 trout in it to start of with and feed them well, but not overfeeding.Also, if you can heat you fish tank water and keep it over 15C, the trout people down here said 18 C is the ideal (24C is the max before it starts to become fatal)..Trout also need plenty of air so IMO aerating the fish tank is a must.... So, If you can heat the water to over 15C for a short time while cycling, that should help with the time factor.

As for your fish dying, I wouldn't be so quick as to blame the supplier...certainly, give them a call and talk to them about your situation, they would definitely appreciate knowing about fish deaths so soon after purchase...and I would suspect they would be helpful to you... It is a reputable trout farm after all....but still, I'd be reluctant to point the finger...Apart from that, I do not know about treating fish and all that.

Oh yes, and I would also put in my plants ASAP if you haven't already done so.....

Keep us updated as to how you are going....

Good luck with it all...

Cheers.

My marron live in 3ppt salinity

In regards to the supplier I was actually trying to point out that in my case everything was going ok for a couple of weeks until I hit nitrite issues. I actually got the trout a day or two after they received them and it was nearly a month after I started cycling the system but that was not long enough.

In a way I think it is good that everyone has issues like this, with the exception of its associated unpleasantness, when you are starting out having everything go smoothly won't educate you as much.

Hi Deano...

Correction.... after your ammonia and nitrites drop to zero then your NITRATES (not nitrites) should kick in...

Sorry about that....

I agree hooked, but also in a way, the associated unpleasantness with losing fish is a good thing as it drives us to do all we can to avoid it in the future, I'm not saying it won't happen, it just makes us try to avoid it.

Cheers.

Hi everyone.

Came home today and took my wife through the readings with her (as I work FIFO).

pH of 7.4 (7.6 to her), ammonia of 0.50ppm (1.0ppm to her), and nitrates/nitrites 0 and 0. I guess the ammonia rising is a good thing?

Last remaining three fish look healthy (!) along with the marron.

In relation to feeding sparingly that someone commented on before, I've been measuring out the feed by individual 3mm pellets - nowhere near the "half a teaspoon" recommended in the BYAP install manual.

For clarification, setup system on Friday with the GB chockers full on seedlings (cauliflower, cabbage, celery, carrots, cos lettuce, broccoli, strawberry from memory). Ran the pump for over 24 hours to aerate the system then installed the water ager and 10x 10cm trout.

On a positive note, saw that the seedlings are growing

I'll update more tomorrow, laptop's about to die

Dean

You in mining Dean? Where ya at?

Yes there is....Hay i see where your going here
Like i said i hope its just my inexperience with AP and trout in particular that has caused the fish to be stressed and die from that.
I realize now that i should have salted the system from the start. I have strawberries growing in it so was reluctant to add salt.

I have been back to the supplier and they have had a lot of trout deaths over the last 3 weeks also and have attributed it to water temperature being over 22C.
All the trout they have now looked healthy and happy but i noticed they are running air stones in the ponds now.

Anyway i have picked up another 10 from them to give it another go.

Fingers crossed this batch will do a bit better. Ill keep the feed to a minimum once i start feeding i promise

Thanks everyone for your helpful advice and sorry Dean if i have hijacked your thread a bit.

Hey all, now down to 2 fish (no fatalities today so far - the two strongest have survived ).

nih: I measured the feed out by pellets. I never went near the teaspoon mark for feeding the trout, most was perhaps 1/3 to a 1/2 a teaspoon per day. We've dropped the feed off too when the fish started dying.
bigdaddy123: only thing I've added is feed, hummonia (as NH3 readings were 0) and the water ager. Plants were in ASAP when I installed the system on Friday week (so for the first day, system was running CF with only plants to encourage oxygenation of the FT).
Charlie: I work underground at a base metals mine in the Murchison region.
edgewateraqua: were you able to get replacement trout or did you have to buy new fish? No probs on the hijacking by the way

Thanks for everyone's advice so far

Dean