Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Indeed..

I have a couple of examples of monopolies..

The Federal Reserve (a private entity)
-Absolute monopoly over the money supply
-Absolute monoply over the ability to lend to the federal govt.
-The "Lender of last resort"

Also Wall St and the banking cartel.
This is part of the FED above because the FED is controlled by the 12 member central banks.
These 12 banks form the cartel. The Federal Reserve Act makes LAW the cartel (the ultimate form)
These central banks and their Wall St friends make up all the TBTF banks (Too Big To Fail)
this means that the government will bail them out if they make so many bad investments they go bankrupt.

Of all the monopolies in history, this is by far the worst. Having the power to regulate the money supply gives the power over the government. It gives total control over the economy and the people (but only when legal tender laws exist).

And yes parasite is a great word

The argument is not whether or not humans damage the planet to some extent. It is obvious to all that we do. No one here is disagreeing with that. From deforestation to oil spills, we don't seem all that responsible for our actions. It is also obvious that we emit "greenhouse" gasses.

This argument is also not about whether the greenhouse gasses we emit could or even in some small way do have an effect on temperature that is different to the "natural sources" of greenhouse gasses (volcanoes, animal herds, natural disasters, etc.

What this climate change debate is about however is whether or not human sourced greenhouse gasses are causing the planet to heat up in some measureable way, well it maybe be argued that it is about if humans are causing the seas to rise by 7m, entire countries disappear and general armageddon as Al Gore and his cronies would have you imagine.
Surely even the hardcore libs/environmentalists out there don't buy the full extent of the hype ?

Wow you go off line for a week and look what happens!

And this has moved on to a topic that I LOVE/HATE ...........

It has been said above! The earth will be here whether we are or not, it’s about our survival! Not the earths!
Unfortunately history does not back up climate change/ global warming! By humans
4000BC people were farming wheat in the far north of Scotland ( the article made the statement that is was 5 degrees warmer than it is today! ) but that is never mentioned, sea levels have risen and fallen by as much as 30 feet over the last 1500 years, 400 years ago Vikings farmed green land! The only thing that is happening today is that we are stuffing it up for US right Now! Nothing more!
IF you believe in evolution 75 million years ago one or two very large pieces of rock/iron wiped out over half of all living things in the space of a 100 years!(or there about’s) It’s what is called a extinction level event!

Sorry Rupert there was No balance of eco system of the earth at that time!

4.5billion years ago the earth was spun out of supper heated GAS, NO eco system to speak of!
It was supposed to have taken millions of years to cool to a point where it was just rock and water!
Everyone is so concerned by the extinction of plants and animals, but evolution history shows that it has been happening for millions of years, and if you believe in evolution different plants and animals will take their place!

So the flash in the pan event that is the supposed destruction of the earth by human effort is a joke in the grand scheme of things!

Should we pollute? NO
Should we try to live sustainably? Yes
Should we be TAXED for It? NO

Because Taxation will kill small business which will only leave big business to dominate and manipulate our lives!

Wolvenstein - So you're basically saying who cares about global warming the earth will still be here even if we aren't?

I think the earth is a giant buffer. If we push it, at first things change slowly but once you hit the tipping point things change very fast. I don't know where we are in relation to that tipping point but I have few doubts regarding the movement toward instability and the cause.

I doubt it's real just because the age is 18. The american navy's minimum age is 17 for a meat based asset. (and I thought they took apprentices younger)

What? LOL

Well according to the 7pm project....scientist have discovered that dinosours possibly are the reason for global warning.

yea, few embarred faces now isnt there....

I can't believe this pointless discussion is still going

Wolvenstein

Glad to read your comments. Not only You have common sense, but also it seams that you have been doing some research of your own and you have not listened to paid imaginary scientists.

Nice going.

Absolutely agree...


And again I agree... there is no arguement that the earth has previously warmed... and cooled.... sea levels have risen.. and fallen accordingly....

(Not sure what article you're referring to ... with regards to being 5 degrees warmer than today... please refer...)

But you can't equate a few people farming wheat 6000 years ago.... with the number of people on earth now... and the amount of pollution we are dumping onto/into the air and water... now...

And yes we are stuffing it up...

The whole point is... you're actually in a sense confirming the very prognosis....

That nature has inbuilt feedback mechanisms... that overtime... and that time isn't measured in decades.... balance the swings and roundabouts...

The point is... that there is a demonstrable and measureable rise in pollution... and global temperatues.... that trend correspondingly to increased human population... and the burning of fossil fuels....

And the whole premise of the "climate change" prognosis brought to the worlds attention by scientists...

Is the possibility.. that the rate of change that is occurring... and corrolates with human activity.... may exceed the speed at which the natural feedback loops/mechanisms.. can adapt and right the imbalance... to our detrement...

The science isn't suggesting that events that have occured through history.. wont repeat...

They suggesting that in fact the history points to the fact.. they will... much more rapdily.. and frequently... than ever before...

Nothing which you have posted negates, or disproves the premise that humans are not linked to present accelerating levels of air pollutants... and /or climate trends.... nothing...


I've never suggested that the eco system of earth.. is, or ever has been static... and in balance.. at all...

I actually agreed with you.... that the earth is constantly addressing the balance of various inputs that have always occurred through time.....

My departure, and disagreement... is solely... that I believe, and science suggests.. that we are, or very well could... exceed the natural systems ability to balance the inputs... before we suffer the consequences...

The earth will go on... regardless of whether or not we do... indeed... it may well do better... if we don't....



Agreed.. we shouldn't pollute... but there are some industries that contribute more than others to pollution...

Should we be taxed.... well no.. we aren't being taxed... or at least theoretically we aren't...

(P.S... most small businesses.. and most people.... will not pay any carbon tax... and IMO... the effect of the carbon tax... will be less than that of the GST introduction....

Sadly, just as in that occassion... there will be businesses that raise their costs... with the pretence of passing on "carbon tax" costs... that they're not actually incurring...

And electricity prices.. and other things, like fuel... will no doubt rise anyway... irrespective of the "carbon tax"... and even if we didn't implement it)

Don't get me wrong... I don't support a "carbon tax".... or an ETS....

I support just giving some incentives for "dirty" industries to clean up their acts... a "twilight" period within which to do so....

Then $million dollar fines for each and every occasion where they breach the guidelines...

it's amazing that people can understand balancing a closed ap system, but not understand that the earth is basically a space ship.. we have to maintain it's habitibility, and we're doing a piss poor job of it..
more sequestered carbon has been released than ever..

we were already in an interglacial period.. (there are studies of the atomsophere going back 400,000 years) which means, "between glacial" - so yeah, there will be another big freeze, but if man keeps up at the rate he's going, we won't be there to see it

Population as of = 2012·05·07


China 1,352,376,280

India 1,255,465,751

USA 315,358,225

Indonesia 244,342,896

Brazil 198,060,850

Pakistan 179,409,420

Nigeria 165,973,116

Bangladesh 152,101,648

Russia 142,711,417

Japan 126,418,560

World 7,039,163,557

The above are the 10 countries with most population.
How many of these countries give a damn about planet Earth's health?

2 out of 10 of these countries actually trying to have some good environmental programs. Does these programs make any sence? Oh, if we look into them, I guess not. It really does not make sense either, but they got something.
But in reality, if not all pay attention to conservation, everyone will pay the price. By having a good conservation programs, we might be able to extend this period of life on planet Earth for a bit longer. But as we all know, mother nature got the last world!

LOL

Yeah and I don't think anyone's changed their minds yet. Kind of makes you wonder what's going on. Might as well be a wall between those who believe global warming is happening and those that don't. Pretty fascinating stuff

Any tax at any level of industry will ALWAYS be a tax on the consumer. The costs have to get passed down. Just because some groups get a rebate doesn't make a difference, it still has to get paid for.

Yes at the moment the cost probably will be lower than our wonderful GST, however there is no upper limit on the tax. The tax is open ended.
At least the pollies didn't lie and say the tax will never go up
So I guess its more honest in that regard.

So regardless of whether humans have a measurable impact on global temperature (this is ultimately what is being debated) there is much hype about the whole issue (and when you think about it, it all happened quite suddenly in just a few years) Governments (including hopefull world governments such as the UN), around the world are using this hype to implement yet more taxes, regulations AND massive publicly funded alternative energy projects (many of which are failing).

So it is this huge amount of money (my money and your money) getting thrown around for a something that has all of a sudden become hyped up in a very few number of years.
Its just all a bit fishy....

Sure investing in cleaner technology is great, but investing so much so quickly means we create bubbles in small areas in the economy (which will bust) and ultimately we all suffer economically.

What good are expensive windfarms (and heavily penalised, expenisive coal power - after all the economic disincentives) if we are all too poor to afford the energy that it produces ?