Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Haven't checked out your sketchup yet, sounds very interesting! More flow is good, I feel that we are probably skating close to the edge. I'm definitely ordering more airpumps; the plan is to get another one for a second system and a third to go between them for added air and as a backup.
I'll do all the measuring this weekend for the pipings (I can give some now, but we also sawed down some lengths after the whole system was running, so I'll re-measure and give all at once).

Wow, sounds great!! I didn't even look into DC appliances. If you had more power, would you still get DC fridge and freezer? And what sizes are yours? Small or normal household (eg.400L and up) size?

Thanks, Bullwinkle! He kind of got me down. We will be outlaying roughly $400 just for the privilege of having our first batch of fish (I was only going to order 20 and see how they do, but we only get to order six times over a three year period- somthing like that- so big risk if they all go belly-up). We are actually considering it, though, for the experiment. And if we build a dam, will they breed by themselves? Maybe we eventually won't need to buy fingerling (although if we build a dam, not sure why we would transfer them from there anyway, may as well just go goldfish). I am pretty sure silver perch aren't permitted down here, too.


OK, I can't visualise that at all...I thought we were already needing all our air pumps' power just to move as much water as we are...

Thanks, everyone, this is great!!!!

I don't remember the sizes of the fridge and freezer. I think they are 200L each. The deep freeze easily holds 60 kgs of meat, plus all of our lard, frozen apples, ice, etc. They are chest style, so more efficient, and they have more insulation than normal ones. They don't require much to run. Yes, I would do it 12 v, even if I had more power because it doesn't depend on the inverter (inverters are weak links).

Beyond fridge and freezer, we really only use power for computers/internet and lights. We have occasional tools and small appliances (sewing machine), but not much in terms of electricity.

On the Fridge/freezer front..

check out these guys..
http://www.waeco.com.au/default.asp

They used to sell a Kit of a compressor/cooling head unit which you could rig in any system you wanted..
Make the chest box your self and they have the components to get it running efficiently..

I have not fully checked out what they now stock but in the day they had it all.. especially if you had access to custom made Chest freezer's..

hope this helps you out..

Psst yes a chest system is way more effective than a std upright..

Juergen

West Marine, where I work, sells all the 12v stuff state side. Most of it is dual voltage, meaning that it runs on 110v when available, and 12v otherwise. The ultimate in efficient are holding plates. They are basically the evaporator coils wraped in the blue gel ice packs are made out of. The compressor runs to "charge" the holding plate. Most can be water cooled, which I think could be used to heat water if someone was creative enough...

Hi Blythe,

Great to see more Tasweigans getting into AP! Have you done any temperature readings in your fish tank in the poly-tunnel? I'm interested to know what they sit at without heating. I'd be really interested to hear what the temps sit at coming into, and throughout winter too. I've got a few ideas in my head but I don't have any data to back it up. If the temperatures of the water manage to stay above about 12 degrees in the winter in a poly-tunnel there might be other alternatives we could grow in our fishtanks instead.

Where in Tas are you? We are up near Devonport. My system is at Ulverstone High School and I'd be happy to show you around some time if you'd like.

Troutman mentioned we are looking at using River Blackfish to power our system but so far we have been unable to catch any. I think their limited home-range means that the hard bit will be finding where they are (it's a huge dam) instead of them finding us. Information I've found so far states their home-range is not a lot more than 20m from their 'cave' home. This more sedentary life-style might make them quite suited to living in an AP system. We are going out again this weekend to see what we can turn up by drowning a few worms with a rod and flattened barbs on the hooks to reduce the injury to them. Our fishtank reached 31 degrees during January and we lost all our rainbow trout so we are looking for alternatives. I got an email from Tim Farrell at fisheries yesterday and he mentioned he'd discussed the idea of River Blackfish with the Principle Fisheries Manager who thought River Blackfish might not behave much differently to Trout. Tim disagrees with him so we will still give it a try to see how they go. The goldfish we've got in there are never troubled by anything but the trout are very hard to keep over summer. Maybe I just need to get them in Autumn, keep them over winter and spring and harvest them in early summer before we break for Christmas.

Jimbo mentioned Rosy Minnows. I think here they are called Rosy Barbs. They are sold as coldwater fish but I'd say they mean indoor coldwater fish that probably won't be able to survive outdoor during Tassie winters. In a poly-tunnel, however, they might be a good option and can be bought from shops (the Pet Barn here in Devonport has them atm) for about $1.50 each.

Nope, nope. Rosy barbs are a tropical fish. Great for an aquarium-I have 1/2 a dozen or so long-finned ones-gorgeous. Rosy red minnows should cost a tenth of a rosy barb. Might not even be on display, but ask about feeder fish at the pet store.
We can also get comet goldfish for the same price about 1-2 inches long. They'll grow out to about a foot, but I don't know how they would taste. Anyone know?

Unfortunately the only fish fisheries will sell us are sterile triploid rainbow trout that can't reproduce.



Goldfish are what is powering our system at the moment. You are right. Silver Perch are not permitted down here

Ahhh.... ok... the rosy barbs are what's sold as feeders here. We get white cloud mountain minnows though... they will stand cold water too. Rosy red minnows aren't here though.

I use rosy barbs and they have no issues with water around 5C+ or so in my experience and can tolerate temps in the low to mid 30C. They are sub tropical. Very tough fish.

Hi, TasV! Looked at your thread, looks great. Your school is very lucky to have you!
We are in Lachlan, 10 minutes south of New Norfolk, and at 300m above sea level, I'm guessing our temps are cooler than yours.
My plan was to keep trout from autumn to summer as well. Not sure water would stay cool enough in summer, especially in the polytunnel. My idea is to try a FT on the outside of the polytunnel, too, with GBs in the polytunnel. Then maybe I can keep trout year round. The other reason for this that our mainlander friends may not need concern themselves with is protection from the abundant native wildlife. If the GBs aren't in the polytunnel, they will need to be fenced.
At the moment, water temperatures have been around 16-17degreesC. Polytunnel temps are probably 10 at night (I'll check tonight) and high twenties during the day.

OK, People, some advice please!

I started peeponics a few days ago (one addition, I didn't want to commit to fishless cycling...) because we weren't actively seeking fish, but now that we know it is a good time to add trout, I am worried we have left it too late and will need to let the system cycle.

pH- 7.8 (going up? Is that possible? It was 7.6 four days ago. And could it be because the FT sides aren't shaded? Definitely getting a bit of algae, will shade the tank tomorrow.).
ammonia- between 0 and .25 Is this now too high for fish? What about goldfish?
nitrates and nitrites - both 0


Should I get some sacrificial goldfish tomorrow and wait four weeks or so for trout? Should I try to put trout in NOW (can happen within the next two days if we give go-ahead). Should I just cycle it fishlessly (how boring...but probably the most sensible).

Do I need to wait until I have fish before adding worms?

Plants are looking fairly anaemic. If I had planted them in the ground, they would definitely be bigger and greener. I guess they don't have any food without nitrates, but I have added seasol.


Oh, and here's another question. What do people do with their sacrificial fish? Just take them out and feed them to the dog? (Sorry, that seems nasty, but our younger dog wouldn't agree). I was thinking about a putting them in a Japanese-style pot-pond.

I'm getting really hooked. We got ducks a couple of weeks ago, and I really want to do something similar to TCLynx with her duckponics and some dwarf fruit trees. Are there any fruit trees that wouldn't mind constant flood? And we wouldn't need to run the system 24 hours a day if there weren't fish in the water, so maybe the set-up could be solar with no battery...

It's hard not to fiddle! A good reason for having a few projects going at the same time The system has been going for 14 days now...

May be wrong but...

I'm not sure what the other will say.. if you can get larger than normal fish.. say 4-5" maybe try 5 fish.. in the 1000lt you have.. and if you have any added Air add that to the FT..

What are you current Water temp's if you don't mind... you need your water to be nice and Cool for the trout..

Don't do what I have done..
I'm not sure how many fish I have swimming in my tank at the moment as the water is not clear.. But I have had a very high rate of death.. and I thought I had a fairly cool system..
I was wrong..

Now I'm running about 100+ Litres of Air in the system.. about 50lts thru the media filter and another 70 lt's thru the air stones in the system..

I still need to get my large Air pump Working if I can.. But I need to check the coils out in the motor..

I want to get the Airlift working again.. I need to get the large Airstone working again. it i not inthe system at the moment..

Jueren

Up to 17 degrees celsius.

There is an ammonia table in this pdf: http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/Travi ... _Guide.pdf

I cycled my system from scratch using 20 small goldfish and 50 ruby barbs (minnows) in a bath tub size system. I did this during the colder period, so had an advantage there. My system cycled in about 3 weeks. I simply changed about 50% of the water when ammonia seemed a little too high, none of the fish died during my cycling. I would start any new system with goldfish, too risky with other fish and goldfish are hell hardy and poo heaps.

As long as your temps are low which they are, the water can tolerate highish pH and ammonia levels, but monitor it every other day and change water as needed. Go by the ammonia table in the pdf, thats what I did, fair bit of leeway in cold water. The biggest danger is high pH and hot water....DEATH!

Its best to add plants when nitrates appear, but no big deal if early, they'll just be slow in growth in my experience.

Good luck

The same water can go back to where it started via a PVC drain, or via another grow bed and another fish tank. A fishtank is just a really big drain. A grow bed, a really big drain full of gravel.

There is a limit due to friction, but if you have have a loop with a pump of some kind, your water flows through the loop. As long as each time it gets to a fish tank, it enters from the bottom to the top, and keeps each fish tank ticking over, everything will be ok.

If the amount of water entering your current system at the input end is 1200LPH, then the amount that's exiting the system from the other end is 1200L.

It has to be.

If you have 1200 LPH of water exiting something, you could put it through an aquaponics system and grow some stuff

Another system.

If you have a pipe running the water back to the start, that pipe has 1200 LPH flowing from one end to the other.

That's enough to splice in another system.

Twice the system for 5 watts. It still wont run your inverter

Friction will eventually mean you cant add any more system, but b[e]ing the only one with a system like this, and seeing you will probably be the first to build a second one ... it might be worth just trying to run the second in-line with the first.

With a conventional system, to make a system cascade you could have a grow bed going to a fishtank, going to a grow bed, going to a fish tank and pumping back up to the start. You could do it if you lived on a hill. But you use so much power pumping uphill, that it would never be low energy,

But moving water sideways means we should be able to create a river of FTs then GBs, each one slowing the water to some degree, but each one getting the very most out of the leftover energy of the last. In the case of the second system you could attach, the left over energy from the first is 1200LPH.

That 1200LPH is the result of the flow you get from your pump, minus however much your first grow bed saps. That's the leftover energy that could be put to use. 1200LPH is what's left to play with after your growbed.

Kind of...


Perhaps

Thanks for that explanantion, Bullwinkle. It's got me thinking...

Well, temperatures have gone up again, water temp up to 20degrees, so that decided me. I went out and bought some comets to cycle the system. How many, you ask, for my 1000L tank?

Three.

I wanted more, but that's all the only pet store for miles around had (they had 4, but some old biddy came in and bought it while I was talking with the store assistant, grr....). Anyway, more on backorder, hopefully tomorrow.

I wasn't fast enough covering the FT, and algae is growing on the sides. pH has gone up to 8, which I assume is due to the algae...

Hopefully it settles in the next few days...

Comets seem really happy, flitting around. I am so happy to have them, the system automatically seems different.