Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

It's true. The colours in that shot were really weird. Something to do with auto white balance and shooting underwater. Alas in my absense this Yabbie has karked it.

@SuperVeg + Scotty on fluoride in water, some people are against it on the principle that it's put in without every member of the public's consent (democracy innit?). Others argue that it's necessary to protect our children's teeth from a young age. Call me a sucker but I'd always thought this to be true and scientifically proven -- i.e. People who grow up in areas where the water has fluoride in it have tougher teeth compared to those who grow up in areas that don't. Indonesia would support this theory. No fluoride as far as I know and lots of shocking sets of choppers, although teeth-brushing culture comes to some as a new thing, and the range of dentist-approved brushes and paste also aint the same as those we have in Australia... and children, a lot of children, eat a lot of sugary snacks and sweets. Diet also plays a big part. So I agree about brushing with fluoride toothpaste... and perhaps even a fluoride supplement would be good.
How much does this cost the average citizen on top of their water bill? I dunno. Water isn't exactly expensive, but I think it shouldn't really fall into the hands of private enterprise because they are all about maximizing profits... and not necessarily public health and safety. That's basically the issue in Jakarta anyhow.

@Scotty on E. Coli -- looking at these guidelines was useful. I'll be much more comfortable bathing in this water now, but as you say it's definitely unsafe to drink.
Would still be interested to know if anyone has any further info on e. coli in AP setups, or if there is already a discussion on this here that I haven't seen...

Thanks again for input

Fer9us - This document has information on food safety and aquaponics but you need to read it carefully - they distinguish between fertilized (using human and animal wastes)and unfertilized systems http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/Travis/Aquaponics-and-Food-Safety.pdf

Lots of information is in there - They aren't pulling any punches because their job is to find the hazards. Some good information starting around page 75 but information is sprinkled throughout if you understand and get past the jargon.

diet and brushing habits are the cause of good/bad teeth.
I'd rather rely on good eating and dental hygene rather than adding a toxic industrial pollutant to my water. If I actually believed flouride helped I would apply it to my teeth and not ingest it...
But what do I know

This document is interesting, although it seems to be a bit piecemeal in the way it is written -- approaches the subject of aquaponics from a lot of different angles/directions and includes a lot of information that could be edited out IMHO.



All seems reasonably straightforward. I get the impression that the levels of e. coli bacteria that start to cause real problems for fish are around 1 million MPN per 100ml of water.
Also, as you mentioned in yr initial response to my water test post, in the US they only close a beach when the fecal coliform count reaches above 235 MPN per 100 ml.
Considering that the sample I had tested came back with 11 MPN per 100 ml for e. coli and 26 for total coliforms, I'm definitely leaning toward seeing it as pretty safe for growing fish and veges for human consumption -- even if there still is a risk.

I'd still be interested in researching natural systems to eliminate these coliforms entirely, if such systems exist. I know that earlier there was mention of a reverse osmosis system, but I don't want to go down that path unless I really have to because it's just another expense at this stage.

rock and roll

personally I think you would be fine.
I would be far more worried about toxic chemicals and metals rather than pathogens.
Our immune system cant fight lead and mercury too well

fer9us - 235 is the federal standard. Not all states go with this and some have their own standards, for example I believe one state closed beaches at about 70 fecal coliform per 100 mls so it varies.

You may want to test for coliforms periodically and try to limit access by warm blooded animals. Levels may change depending on the temperature since coliforms persist longer in colder temperatures.

One last thing - it is possible to shock chlorinate a well to kill the fecal coliforms but I don't know if this would do you any good or if it is advisable in your case because other compounds react with chlorine and I noticed something to this effect while reading about Jakarta. In some parts of the U.S. this sort of thing is done by county sanitarians since it requires some expertise. To give you an idea of what this involves here is a link -

http://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_m/m-115.html

My gut feeling is that this would not take care of the problem with your well but I thought you should have all the options to make a reasonable choice.

I pretty much agree with Superveg's last comment.

@Superveg + scotty435: This is what I want to hear.

In regards to the suggestion of shock chlorination treatment of wells, I think my main concern is not the well itself but that e. coli is surviving in the water table (at groundwater temperatures).

As noted in the above link, shock chlorination probably wouldn't work in this case:
"If the groundwater itself is the source of bacteria, the system will be contaminated again when that water is pumped into the plumbing. In that case, continuous chlorination or other disinfection methods will be necessary to ensure the safety of the water supply."

With that in mind, I'm considering something like a preliminary filter along the lines of a reed bed that exposes the contaminated water to direct sunlight so it gets UV sterilization.

Thanks again for the suggestions and input. Much appreciated.

... Now we're getting somewhere.

I was just reading Water Treatment and Pathogen Control: Process Efficiency in Achieving Safe Drinking Water by Mark W LeChevallier and Kwok-Keung Au. (2004) ~ part of the WHO Drinking Water Quality Series. (http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/en/watreatpath.pdf), when I found this:

This lead me to Google "roughing filter coliform",
which led me here: http://en.howtopedia.org/wiki/How_to_Filter_Water_with_a_Sand_Filter

... And this, in turn, led me here http://www.eawag.ch/forschung/sandec/gruppen/ws/projects/roughing_filter/index_EN.

Both these have diagrams of systems I can use to filter coliforms out of the groundwater I will be using.
I'm beginning to see a more coherent plan coming together, or at least the first steps I need to take to get this happening.

Hooray for Google! I see the light!

So a roughing filter followed by slow sand filtration before putting the water in the AP system?

Baby boy, our second, born this morning at 4.25 am. All happy n healthy. pics to follow

@Scotty, yup. That's the idea -- water will also be for household use and half for AP setup. Will put a diagram together I think...

Congrats to you and mum Fer9us...

Happy Birthday to the little tyke and congratulations you both!