Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Hi all since we are quite restricted here in Tasmania i were wondering if maybe ornamental fish mite be a option to work into my aquaponic system? when i decide what system i may use? and any one out there with suggestions of what other varieties mite work??

It seems that any fish that poops will make fertilizer for your plants. Oscars get big but are aggresive territorial buggers. Convict cichlids breed almost as fast as guppies. I personally prefer Severums as far as cichlids go. Lots of personality and almost as big as Oscars but slightly less aggresive. Prettier, too, IMHO.

oscars are the puppydogs of he fish world.
Are you going to have it outside cos heating will cost lots there are lots of other fish you can use im sure

Thank you for these words of advice i am hoping to have the system in a shade house here in Tasmania to try and stabilize the temps! i see in my research that a lot of these types of fish need about 24 to 28 degree's c to be comfortable if i could find something that would survive in slightly lesser temps since i live in tassy i mite be better off? any thoughts please?

That sounds like goldfish. Keep looking. Some catfish and loaches can handle cooler temps than most tropicals.

Koi or goldfish would probably be fine, and not too expensive either

G'Day KiT,

This is a catch 22 situation IMO. There ARE cichlids that would be more tolerant of these conditions BUT, aggression aside, there are other things to keep in mind.

These ones do have a rep for being more nasty but then those in the know who have actually kept these fish know that they can cohabit in relatively high densities... keepers of Mbuna cichlid call it controlled over-crowding. In crowded situations normal aggressive behaviours are often not displayed. I was at Tasmania Zoo the other day and couldn't believe my eyes as they had a 4x3x2 tank with about 15 large (8-12") mature red devils all in together living in what looked like harmony. There were no tell-tale shredded fins or missing scales or fish cowering in the corners that one would normally expect to see under such circumstances. There was a pecking order, however, things seemed relatively calm for the half-hour or so I was watching them.

The thing to keep in mind is that I'm not sure it is such a good idea to keep them here because once fisheries cotton on to the fact that they can tolerate lower temperatures the 'rule book', might suddenly change. They are very serious about controlling things down here and if they knew that Texas cichlids can stand temperatures down below 10 degrees they might decide that we can't have them. Texas cichlids grow large, have a bad temper kept singly or in pairs and can be bred easily in home aquaria (in fact, they are similar to convicts... just add water ). Under high stocking rates their normal territorial behaviours are suppressed and they will act more like tilapia (Tilapia kept on their own or in pairs are some of the 'bad-ass' group of cichlids too). I don't recommend ridiculously high stocking rates like 1 fish per 10 litres as I've seen bandied about in other places, but you could get away with 10-20 in a large pond (2000L ish) without too many issues.

I once had a tank with convict cichlids in it that was also full of Vallinseria (plants) and I broke the tank down and put the Val. into a bucket for storage. I had intended to move the Val. into a pond I had at the time (when I lived near Newcastle). The adult fish were moved to a different tank and the plants put in the bucket and basically forgotten about over winter. On cleaning it out at the end of winter I found a little convict baby swimming around, that must have got caught up with all the plants, in water with a temperature of 4 degrees. They don't grow large enough to eat, however.

In WA, Geophagus brasiliensis has been found in feral populations and are well known to tolerate lower temperatures (down to about 10-12 degrees). They also grow large enough to eat and are easy to breed. Many of the Sth American cichlids and Central American cichlids are actually highly prized for their flesh. Oscars, for example, have no intramuscular bones, firm white flakey flesh with good taste, grow quickly and dress out well to make nice thick fillets. They will survive temperatures as low as 12 degrees but will not thrive.

Did you see my reply to your previous post on the same topic? River Blackfish are currently being evaluated by fisheries for their aquaculture potential. I'm about to begin a trial with them myself with about 20-30 fish. You would not need to worry about heating the water at all if you went down this path.

Don't forget, Koi carp are illegal to keep in Tas.

Hope this helps some.

Why not go Trout, and just make sure you have the system covered, and set-up so it doesn't get to warm..

Juergen

Hi Tasv I know that Carp or Koi are illegal here in Tasmania. Just a normal joe Blow wouldn't be able to keep Blackfish would they ? it would have to be some one doing research?. I never thought of the fisheries changing the rules but i can see where you coming from with that one! And trout are just to much of a hassle for a small setup what with the licensing costs transport costs and things here in tassy just as quick to go catch one lolz!! i will take all your advice on board guys as being a lil green round the gills i need all the advice and help i can get lolz

Hi KiT,

The word from Tim Farrell is that no permit is needed to keep the River Blackfish. They do like people to apply for a capture and transport permit (cost $140 and I have the application form here if you would like it... just PM me your details) but then you can go out and catch your own starter stock and concentrate on breeding them to replace your stock as you need to. I reckon it's a pretty reasonable amount to pay given that buying starter stock will cost you that much easily and then you'll only get sterile triploid rainbows or sterile tiger trout (hybrids) that you need to keep buying to replenish your stock and catching them is way more fun. I reckon getting them use to pellets might be a challenge but if you catch them small enough there's a good chance they will get the idea, erspecially if they are initially kept in smaller confines with fish like goldfish that already have the routine down pat Where in Tas are you? I'm talking to a friend of mine straight after I finish typing this to arrange catching some from his farm dam today... hopefully. Bloody hot though.. might wait till this evening.

Are you getting this insanely hot weather at the moment where you are? It's hotter down here in TAS at the moment than it is in Broome!

How big is the system you have or are setting up?

Hi Tasv I have Pm you my details i hope you got them. As i am new to the state like only been here 5 yrs i wouldnt know where to start looking for blackfish. But i must admit i like the idea a lot!

I have two Threadfin Acara (acarichthys heckelii) in my fishtank that powers (along with tetras, cories, arowfella cat, pleco..etc etc.) a 75 gallon growbed. The threadfin is a beautiful South American Cichlid closely related to eartheaters. I'm no expert but I think some eartheaters actually need a cool down period to breed so they may work if you have a seasonal temperature fluctuation.

The main issue with using New World Cichlids IMHO is limited stocking levels for two reasons:
1. Aggression issues. Most New World Cichlids have some type of aggression level and none are going to do well in highly stocked tank. They need their space and territories or they will kill each other. Some are better than others...eartheaters are a little more easy going than say texas or jaguar cichlids.
2. Nitrates - This goes along with #1 but even if the fish got along you couldn't densely stock them because they don't tolerate high nitrate levels well. Most people recommend <40ppm Nitrate levels and some species require even less than that. I'm well below the general rule of thumb here of 10gallons of filtration for 1b of fish....I don't think I could ever get to that level because my goal is to keep the fish happy. I currently don't grow high need veggies like tomatoes etc and am only growing some herbs and peas. The good thing is that all my nutrient levels are at 0 which makes for some very happy fish.

If you are going for food production I would look elsewhere. If you are looking to raise beautiful fish with a personality and raise some veggies at the same time, than it's definitely doable.

Overcrowding is no more of an issue with these guys than it is for any other fish. Aggression is a behaviour that is often not displayed when normal territorial boundaries are not present. When you have seen 8-9 red devils in a 4x3x2 tank all measuring from 8-12 inches in length with no signs of aggression then you start to get an idea that the normal rules do not apply in these circumstances. My background was in aquariums (30 years of it), before it was turned to aquaponics/aquaculture and the only cichlid that I've ever had that systematically killed every one of its tank mates was a Paratilapia polleni (and I've been told it's more a case of just some are pricks but not all of them are like that). It was a sad day a few weeks ago when a careless water change caused his demise to a dose of white spot and meds he didn't like. He has a nasty B****** but very beautiful and built like a brick outhouse and about 10" long. I started off with 6 x 4cm juvies in a 30gal tank and he proceeded to kill every one of them. This was him in his 4x2x2 tank a week before he died a few weeks ago



Trouble with a lot of these SA/Central American cichlids is they are just too pretty to eat

When it comes to keeping aquarium fish we tend to try and immitate their natural environment and concentrate on building biotopes (especially us cichlidophiles) but aquaponics isn't a natural system and is focused more on production. Tilapia are one of the meanest fish on fins when they are kept in pairs in a lightly stock mixed species aquarium but in an aquaculture setting they cohabit well (like the red devils I saw... actually the more I think of it the more I think red devils might be a good choice too). Try keeping a Tilapia buttekoferi as a display specimen or in pairs and see how long everything else lasts. I probably wouldn't try umbies, dovii, or a festae but most others would be fine. You only have to look at photos like these ones: http://www.cichlid.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1644 (mostly Tilapia mariae with a few buttekoferi as well). My old 6x2x2 cichlid tank had oscars, friedrichsthalii, surinamensis, rainbow cichlids, severums, chocolate cichlids, jewel cichlids, convicts and a managuense in it and so long as I kept the filtration up to it they got along fine. The surinamensis even routinely bred as did the chocs.



This is only true if you intend to breed them as there is some evidence to suggest nitrates inhibit the growth of fry. As adult's, however, they are largely unaffected by nitrates. In my plant tanks I dose potassium nitrate to boost plant growth and my fish still breed on me in these tanks. Most are very intolerant of nitrites but nitrates don't affect them significantly. In an AP system that is growing hard you are harvesting a lot of the nitrates anyway. In my system, when it was running 30 rainbow trout and 20 goldfish my tests came back zero when comparing the influent water with the effluent water in four grow beds.

Interesting. So, you are saying if I got rid of the biotype environment in my tank I could densely stock it with what could be considered aggressive cichlids? Not that I would want to, im doing this more for aesthetics than food production but it does go against the conventional wisdom.


Also, what about high nitrates and fish coloration? In your experience have you seen any loss of color with cichlids in high nitrates?

Edit: btw, beautiful fish

Getting rid of the biotype or really any structure in the tank that a fish will start to identify as a territorial border.

"they are just too pretty to eat." +1