Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

So this is kinda what I'm thinking in terms of how it would look, Red line would be plumbing for the water pump, blue line would be the gravity water from the tank, and the green would be the Grow beds drain into the sump tank. The sump tank I was thinking would be a 55 gallon drum, and it doesn't necessarily have to be in it's current location I could relocate it much closer to the tank, if necessary (sorry about square pipes best I could do with the Eval copy haha). Gravity fed lines need to be level with where you want the cap of water to stop until it's moved by the pump correct? If everything let's say was setup in a way that every had a water depth of 3 feet, and everything had a size of 3 feet 2 inches, does that mean gravity fed water would only go to water level of eveything? Then the pump would cause agitation by moving the water and causing it to have differences. So say for example the pump blows up... Would there be any water loss?

I'm going to point you at DecalsbyJT's thread for building the tank. You really need to be certain the tank is structurally up to holding that much water. 9,704 lbs of water. You can probably get some ideas about the plumbing on a wood tank. It's a long thread but worth the read. Some of the Koi sites have good information on wood tanks as well.

http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=5259

Look at SLO for the return from the FT to the GBs.

I'm not certain about the 55 Gallon drum for the sump. You have to be able to return almost that much to the sump every minute since your pump is probably the 3200 gallon per hour fountain pump that HF sells (granted it won't be pumping that unless there is almost no head height). Better make sure your piping to the sump can handle this.

The 55 gallon drum might overflow if the pump quits - depends on how much water can flow from the beds and pipes. You could probably make it so that most is held without flowing into the sump during a power outage and be ok.

I don't like the idea of using 2 separate liners and trying to bond them together. I know you can do it and it will probably work but if it leaks along the seam and you already put your rock in have fun. What about two separate beds within the same frame with different liners (it looks like it's drawn this way)? The white part of the growbed looks like a pain to put liner in with the corner the way it is - I'd change that. You could just make that part of the bed wider as long as you can get to both sides. FYI, I didn't check your math on the liners (didn't want you to assume that I had )



No - The level in the fish tank should be above the growbed water level. You use the standpipes in the growbeds to determine what height the water gets to in the growbed before it flows out to the sump. This way you can change the water level in the growbed by just changing the standpipe length.

Yeah, that makes sense I have no idea why I said that on the piping, the fish tank would be at least 8-12 higher than the grow beds, so besides that it should be okay. So the reason why there is a wall in the L shaped grow bed is because the larger one will be converted into a filter a bit later, and the reason is, it has like 100 carrots and 30 radishes right now and a ton of compost that I gotta dig out lol.

I'll read that on the structural thing, as I'm aware of the weight, that is why I was gonna allow the tanks bottom to sit on the nice packed dirt, trailers boats etc been driven over it and it's nice and flat, but I was considering bricks or something along those lines.

Actually you can set the level the way you mentioned but it's not as easy to change.

I remember JT had some troubles with his first tank - I forget why (maybe termites). The second tank is furthur into the thread. He skinned both sides of the tank with plywood, basically making a torsion box.

Well, I'm planning on staining all the wood since it won't be coming in contact with anything besides the ground... Hm, I have no idea how to figure out the folds, the reason why I mention connection pond liners is because of the nice deal I found on them, but when I count in the tape it could price them up by an additional $40. Reason I'm making a somewhat good size tank is I can see in the future adding onto the grow beds, so it would make sense IMO to have a nice size tank. So I have nice dense fish population in the future (even at the expense of filters if necessary). We'll see I suppose in the long run it'd be held together via lags at each end, I could build 45 braces with concrete supports like one would see on those square pools. My design is similar to that besides the 45 bracing those pools have. Reading, reading!

So I've been skimming through the thread you linked too, I'm on like page 38 and watching his design and it made me rethink mine for ground fluctuations. So the area I'm gonna use is hard packed dirt (it's under a tree that has it's own herbicide - it's a California Black Walnut - So it doesn't allow much to grow in it's root area). In this area I get hardly any rain like DecalsbyJT gets, it's rained 1 or 2 times this winter season, and it wasn't even impressive rain.

So after rethinking the design I've come up with this for the fish tank:


So with this design, the legs that are below the fish tank will be sunk 2 feet down with concrete around them like a post would be for a fence. This will keep it from leaving it's location should erosion or something along those lines occur. The second thing I rethought was the middle bracing, after looking at DecalsbyJT Grow beds and how he used some metal rods over the top to keep it from bowing I beefed up the center to a 4x6, which will be set in concrete like the outer 4 legs. I have been thinking maybe some rocks in the middle to help with drainage around the horizontal 4x4's to keep water away. I plan on treating them, and leaving maybe a 2 inch gap between the horizontal 4x4's and the ground, and fill it up to that bottom of the 4x4's with gravel so if there is a leak occurring it won't allow the 4x4's to sit in it unless it's a bad leak. I have been thinking about the pond liner and will have to think some more, but if I use a rock flooring I will definitely use some time of underlay and tarp to make sure the pond liner is safe, and a bottom drain may not be all that necessary, and I may consider a sump tank a bit larger than needed. I figured a 55 gallon would be enough if I have a pump that can keep up with it, but I can always have a valve that would decrease water flow from tank to GB, this of course may have to be planned/considered a bit more. When I was talking about connecting two pond liners I would be using something like http://www.amazon.com/Aquascape-Seam-Ta ... 26&sr=8-25 - This permanently connects the pond liners, I presume this would be on larger ponds that have liners, so it should be okay in my usage, bit pricey though. I've also read of people just using silicone... that's a bit questionable too me, but from what I've read it has worked out great so who knows.

You might want to check out this thread. They are talking about wooden tanks at the moment - http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11755

I noticed the Koi link in that thread. He mentions plywood but used what looks to be Oriented Strand Board (OSB) for the sides - This is only around 6.50 per sheet in my area - might be an option for you.

Hey Markymark

I have been following your thread and see a couple things...

the first AP setup was a small one and I did have a few minor problems with it..

I didnt think about termites so didn't treat the ground prior to building the system...

if you continue onto my large greenhouse section in my thread, you will find a lot of information
on the larger AP system...

I would recommend top straps to keep the top section from bowing out on your FT.. Mine is 600 gallons with a 2 x 4 construction with plywood inside and outside.... lag bolts are used to bolt the sections together.... I also have 2" x 6" top caps lagged into the FT sides.... and with all this, the sides wanted to bow out... so a strap across the center (my tank is 3 x 3 x 9 feet) will keep it from bowing out.... you may want to put at least 2 cross ties on yours.....

In my new large GH system, I put the FT on a slab to keep it supported... I also treated the ground twice with termite killer before putting in the system.... you can also see how I folded my corners to make it neat looking....

my sump tank which is 3.5 x 3.5 x 16' is made up of a concrete slab and the side are standard cinder blocks.. I used the firestone 45mil epdm liner....

JT

Well, I read through your green house post DecalsbyJT, and watched you transform your setup. So I will definitely consider using top strap as it makes sense (and check out your other post), I just didn't figure it would bow using 4x4's for the top, and anchoring the bottom posts into concrete this in itself makes me think it shouldn't bow, but either way I think top straps is a safe idea. Well, I'm looking at the pond liners and buying smaller pieces seems to be so MUCH cheaper (why?). I'm trying to build this on a budget which is why I'm being a tight ass haha. But there is just some things one can't be cheap on. Now regarding termite I do not have any in my area to my knowledge, and I have wood ALL over the place without any termite damage, but treating for termites either way IMO is a good idea.

I do not plan on putting plywood or OSB on the outside (the inside was going to be OSB BTW), just the inside as I'm okay with that, I don't plan on showing it to others (unless they wanna check it out) so making it looks really good can come later should I decide too. When I was reading your post DecalsbyJT, you kept on referring to an observation window so I thought you was gonna have a window where you could look in and see your fish LOL. I'm also thinking about adding one so I can see my fish and or let others see it (already contradicted myself). I don't think I'll be making a huge sump tank like the Chift Pist, I like the concept of the 55 gallon barrel in it's location so I can spawn smaller fish in it, I may though get something a bit taller so I have a few extra gallons for my Sump Tank, I'm not TERRIBLE worried about it over flowing should power go out. As I'm going to have an over-sized tank for my setup my tank is gonna be a 1:2 currently until I build some more grow beds, but I wanna build me a basic Greenhouse out of PVC and some plastic just for a gardening area in the back to keep my stuff and maybe a grow bed or two.

Hey thanks for the plug for those two threads to check out. Thanks again for the help scotty435 and DecalsbyJT. scotty435 you've really pointed me in the right direction so thanks.

Does $274 for a 15x25 foot 45 Firestone PondGard Pond Liner sound like a good price? This includes everything including shipping (amazon).

You're welcome Markymark, you'll find there are plenty of people here who are willing to help.

To add to what JT has mentioned about the top cap. I would add some crossbracing on the outside of the OSB between your verticals (cheap insurance).

hey

go to justliners.com and see if they are cheaper.....

jT

Includes Tax + shipping.
http://www.123ponds.com $266.25
http://www.amazon.com $273.99 (and many more higher prices)
http://www.justliners.com $300.12

This is the pump I'm looking at:
http://www.amazon.com
Beckett 7114310 Waterfall Pump 3500gph $139.95
Amps: 2.5
Watts: 300
Max flow: 3500 gph
Max lift 23.1'
Flow (gph)/head: 3500 @ 1', 2875 @ 5', 1950 @ 10'
Screen inlet; Outlet - 2" MPT, 1-1/2” FPT, with 1” & 1-1/2” O.D. barb
Two year manufacturer warranty

After checking some pond calculators I decided to increase the size of my pond because of the pond liner size too:
14 feet long
4 feet wide
5 feet deep

That way I maximize the liner's size, and that pump has pretty impressive lift numbers so I should be okay. But I don't want much if any over hang on the pond liner, I know it has to be folded, but I don't want to have to worry about over hang as IMO it's kind of a waste when it can be the most expensive part.

Also I was thinking of using an IBC as a sump tank, that's 275 gallons, and the pump only needs to be able to keep up with 275 gallons. I could also install regulation type controls on the amount of water flow in the pipe (I'm planning on using 2 inch pipe everywhere)

I like to leave some extra liner all around and then just trim it back (usually about a foot around the edges). Having less liner, in my experience, just makes the job more difficult. I've only made two of these and I suppose maybe I'll get better at it with practice. Trying to get the folds in the corners right and then making certain you have it perfectly centered - it's easy to be off a few inches one way or the other.

Don't know anything about that pump brand. I've been using the Laguna Maxflo pumps which I like. I did notice that the pump you listed is 300 Watts. If the specs on the Laguna 4200 pump are reliable then it pushes more water for 160 Watts. I suspect the price difference (around $60 US) would take less than a year to pay back. Something to think about.

http://www.lagunaponds.com/lagunaeng/maxflopumps/maxflo.php?link=141

Hey I appreciate that, I'll check that pump out.

Looking around and it seems to be cheapest on ebay so far
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LAGUNA-PT-352-MAX-FLO-4200-GPH-KOI-POND-PUMP-/370497497720?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56435f2a78

$70 more, but it pumps MORE and uses less energy that's pretty impressive lol. And if this company designs them for Koi's I probably choose this over any other just because of the purpose, koi's can cost thousands, and I'm sure this company doesn't wanna be responsible.