Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

That is what it says for groundwater (inorganic) which is the subject at hand, yes. Also says that most of the North East and Northern Middle of the United States are in that range. People still fish, hunt, and gather. Personally, I wouldn't be too worried about it.

Does this dude say that he can filter out the arsenic with his magic filtration system? And to what ppb will it be brought down to? And how much are the filters, and how often would they need changed, etc...

Well, have you had the rain water tested to find out what that level is? It's possible you can save the rain/snow water for top-ups to the tanks. Twill soon be the rainy season in yonder cold country.

Hope someone else that knows more about this will chime in here...

The EPA (which, IMO is a scam anyway) only requires "action" at 50 PPB. A basic cartridge carbon filter will reduce 70-85% so it would bring it under the recommended 10 PPB. I have one on there now, but the test was done with that filter removed, so I have no idea how effective what I already have is at removing the arsenic.

Not too worried about $2K filter guy, going with another cheaper option that does the same thing (which is mainly to remove the iron since our water stains the sinks and smells like pennies) but I am debating the "bypass valve" option to get the higher iron levels and use that water for the tanks, since iron is desired? Then again I have been shown info that says the fingerlings/fry are more susceptible to higher levels of iron, so I am wondering if I should use the filtered water in the tanks as well?

Decisions decisions... Thanks to all for the input!

Just found your topic, and would like to give some advices.

Please forgive me I'll be straight forward. I think your system design is ment to fail.

1. Tilapia is not a fish for you. Its not growing under 20C, and its dies at 10C. If you are lucky you will get minimal growth, but for best growth you would need 28C and that is impossible.


2. Heat, insulation, and sustainability.

- The greenhouse will loose more heat than you can imagine. And as the water is circulating it will cool down your whole system. In a week on -20 it will surely freez.
- Heat exchanger would bring more problems (cleaning, leaking, size, more insulation, no coper allowed). Also most of your bacterias live in the GB-s and imagine you fish producing waste in 25C while you bacterias live slowly in 7C. This situation ends quickly in a straight disaster.

- Heat lamps are useless, I bet 80% of the power is simply wasted.

Bottom line you could have a better system, that uses less energy, if you put everithing under the insulated porch, use less heating and artificial lighting. Still than you would have a nice playground thet produces very expensive fish and vegies.

Learn from failiures of other people. I belive you are heading to huge delusion.

Here you can find a collection of temperate climate aquaponic links here:
http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10520

Once again, please dont take it as an offence, I just want to help.

No offense taken ZsaZsa... I actually had already read your entire thread after seeing your system in the BYAP guide with great interest, since you get cold temps where you are as well. I very much appreciate your input.

I had definitely considered the growbeds being to cold and the bacteria dying off. I was also wondering if it would be better to have the plants under the porch structure with artificial light during the winter, maybe that is the best solution.

One thing to note is I do not plan on using the growbeds as my only biofilter and bacteria colony. I have two 55 gallon blue barrels and I plan to use one as a swirl filter to remove solids (right after the fish tank and before the grow beds), and then I plan to have a suspended media biofilter that the sump water recirculates through (since the pump I bought was very large, I plan on diverting some of the water from the pump and splitting the outflow between the FT and the biofilter, and the biofilter will flow back into the sump). Does this change any of your advice?

I already had purchased a 400W grow light to put in the greenhouse to supplement the sunlight, but do you think the heat loss in the greenhouse outweighs the benefits from the sunlight that saves me about 5 hours per day of having to use the artificial lights?

Glad I am getting all this great advice NOW, before everything is setup. I still am pretty set on doing tilapia, since I have a breeder colony that will live in a 55 gallon fish tank in my heated basement, but maybe I will just wait to put the fingerlings into the AP system until spring, and keep them minimally growing during winter months...

I actually just picked up 12 tilapia "fingerlings" (from about 2 inches to about 4 or 5 inches) when I was at the only other local farm here in NH that raises tilapia. The thought was I could use these to cycle my system while I was waiting for my breeder colony to arrive (sometime next month). That guy keeps the water at 65 F during winter and just lets the fingerlings hang out until spring when he starts the grow out and stocks his tanks (he only does aquaculture though, no AP)

Very interested to hear any thoughts on the above, and thanks again to all!

Yes! Your fish wont die cause of ammonia or nitrite but still there is a problem with nitrate as your vegies grow slowly, and pick up the far less nutrients.

"Light" is not a problem. Those plants that grow well in cold weather require less light as well.
Scattered sunlight should be enough, artifical light is an extra.

"Heat" is your problem. If I'm right your GH is on the east side of the house. If its getting into the shade before 1pm its a wasted money to build anithing. It will never be economic. You either waste money on insulation or heating, the outcome will be its not economic.

If you dont have a better location, try thinking of using the GH 9-10 month a year, and close it for winter.

could you whack a NFT tube on the biofilter - sump line, help remove notrates?

GH is on the west side of the house, gets sun from about 8 am to right around 1 or 2pm (during winter... in summer it gets sun much longer, but that is not the issue). If I move it (or the deck it sits on which would be a larger undertaking - which the wife has already frowned on), I could push it out to maybe 3pm, but the shadow from the house covers it by then. I could potentially move it down the yard out by the chicken coop which gets sun all day, but that requires building a platform for it, and it would make it so I could not use gravity to return the flow from the growbeds back to the sump since it is a much longer distance... I would probably need a second pump, plus it is a much longer line requiring more insulation, etc.

My main concern with the GH has definitely been heat loss and economy. My plan was to insulate the grow beds, and I was also thinking about the suggestion I have heard about shutting down the growbeds at night, but I am thinking the cold night temps would kill all the bacteria, etc, and plants would not be happy either. I have been impressed with the twinwall polycarbonate though, and it always seems much warmer in the greenhouse than outside. Of course, we have only been in the 5-10C range...

I also was considering moving some warm air from inside into the greenhouse, and also my heating system exhaust produces steam, not sure if that would be a + or a - to run some of that into the greenhouse as well (not sure how hot it comes out).

I probably could add a NFT tube on the biofiliter - sump line... not a bad idea Freoboy! I wanted to incorporate NFT at some point anyhow, maybe I will just design that in from the outset.

I figure no matter what I will have to heat the water, and I already have 1500W and 300W water heater... I was thinking one in the sump and the other in the FT. I will also plan to do solar come spring, since in winter it is not really worth it here.

Also, the tilapia farmer I saw yesterday had a wood stove heating his tank room. It had a stainless steel coil running through it and an water IN and water OUT that came out from that, with two hoses. The one hose went into the fishtank and had a submersible pump on it, the pump moved the water up the hose, through the heated coil, and returned the heated water to the fish tank. It was low tech and very hands on, but I have been strongly considering a rocket mass stove heater setup and maybe something like this could provide cheap heat to deal with some of these issues?

IMO the GH is not for nitrification at all (because of the temps too low for the bacteria), but only to remove nitrates. The filtering next to the FT will get things to the nitrate stage. FWIW I was able to grow my tilapia in the basement all Winter without any plants at all (nitrates went >300ppm) and it didn't seem to hurt the tilapia any. So it should be OK to not be able to remove all the nitrates all through the Winter season then get the GH going early as the Winter eases.

Thanks Dave... since I have not really setup yet, and we may get our first snow here in a few hours, I take it you would recommend just starting everything inside my structure and then move it to GH next spring? Just wondering if I should bother at all this season with the GH and if the month or two max I would get in there would be worth it.

Thanks for the info and encouragement!

Also, Dave, what size were your tilapia? Were you trying to get growth out of them, or just maintain them through winter?

Thanks again!

If you get sun in the morning, its on the east side.
If you get sun in the afternoon its on the west side.

Start inside, leave the gh for the winter, save sourself time to read and rethink everithing.

They were big enough to eat but not the size of some of the FLA ones I've seen on here. I re-read a little and during the Winter I had been seeing nitrite, which may have been from the nitrate going backward (de-nitrification). This was in our unheated (but very sheltered) basement, with lots of insulation and lots of water heaters.

Just going back a few posts..

Arsenic is actually a necessary trace element in animals.
No idea what levels this "trace" is though...
anyone ?

One of the thing's that have come forward is the lack of growth over winter..

If you are actually Worried about the fish over winter.. All you need to do is have a set of standards filters to handle the extra ammonia/nitrites/nitrates you have over winter..

Me I would have 2 things to switch on.. 1 A moving Media filter, 2 A sand and Gravel filter.. or a Trickle tower..

Juergen

sand and gravel filter will clog in no time with fish poo (been there tried that )