Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

AAARRRGGHHH!

Just when I thought I should buy PICAXE and launch into my new "thing", electronics, I get a comment on my blog from someone named Bonj telling me about Arduino.

Does anyone know Bonj?

I want to build some digital control into my grow house, and generally learn electronics.

I hadn't heard of Arduino before and now I'm in a fog.

Does anyone have any experience with both PICAXE and Arduino?

PICAXE seems to be clear as to what you can buy and from where.

Arduino is open source and seems to have a stack of non-Arduino components and addons.
But I cant seem to find a list of the chips that Arduino offers.

Is there just the one chip that the platform uses?

stuff that might help you help me...

- I dont know electronics at all. I can make a torch, but cant make it turn on automatically at night.

- I can code in VB

- I can learn C

- I want to be able to prototype something on a breadboard, pull out the chip, and hardwire it all up into a usable discrete project that has a real world application. (ie rather than just learning and experimenting) PICAXE seems to be geared towards this, but it might just be me. I still cant see anywhere where I can just buy an 8 pin chip (or whatever) in Arduino like the PICAXE version.

-I have a very limited budget for ongoing projects so price is an issue, but ease of use is also a factor. In spite of being poor, for my entry into electronics, I'd be looking at the [url =http://www.rev-ed.co.uk/docs/AXE091.pdf]picaxe experimenter kit[/url] in PICAXE or something similar in Arduino.


Does Arduino work the same as PICAXE as far as being able to program a chip on a prototyping board, then pull it out and plug it into a soldered version of the same project? Or does every Arduino project start with a board (shield?) with all the USB tackle etc?

I think the question I'm asking is, do they work the same?

Is Arduino like PICAXE in so far as having a range of chips with a built in OS, some flash memory, and a built in code interpreter (or however that part of PICAXE works) , that I can program on some type of prototyping board, then stick into a circut board with a stack of interesting componects, and give it to my mum as a discrete electronic battery operated device that, say, tells her when to take some pills or something by flashing lights and sliding open a box with today's dose in it?*



*actual project may differ from that depicted.

I never tried pic, but have a limited experience with Arduino. I'm just getting into this myself.

Arduino is very easy to use with a large library of code available online. For instance there are libraries for LCD screen control, motor control etc.

You can find it in a few different styles with varying numbers of I/O pins and memory.
http://www.adafruit.com/category/17_64

This stripped down version could easily be incorporated into your own circuit.
http://www.adafruit.com/products/72

There are ethernet shields that can be connected to Arduino that can be used for remote control. I have seen a project where a person opens his garage door from his phone. You can have it send you text message updates on your AP system.

Google recently announced they were going to adopt Arduino for their open source phone hardware accessories. I haven't seen where they have done anything with it yet though.

What projects did you have in mind?

Know nothing about Arduino, programming doesn’t look very different from Picaxe.
The new M2 Picaxes support 4 or 8 (pseudo) parallel task processing, depending on a chip, very easy to implement but didn’t have chance to use them yet.
Are extensively used and very well supported with a fabulous forum.
Don’t need to buy a programmer and everything I made was on pieces of stripboard with minimal expense.

forum-my protomoduls
AP Timer

Fully recommend it but do your own research first before deciding.
You will need a reasonable soldering technic, few DMMs, one is never enough and learn how to use an ELCAD, I’m using a free version of Eagle

Thanks for the reply.

I hate it when I'm ready to buy something and then see some other shiny thing that needs buying.

The projects I have in mind would be some aquaponics stuff to start with. Green house temperature control. Moving water to pull excess heat from the top and sink it into a store to be slowly released... alarms for loss of flow or low water levels. That kind of thing. But basically I want to learn it for the sake of learning it. I'm on a bit of a learning adventure where I'm attempting to learn 120 things in 20 years. Aquaponics was my first

There have been a few others in various stages. Everything is ongoing for ever. But I suspect electronics will be useful to just about everything I do.

From what I can gather, Arduino seems to be more about building projects from plug in boards that have pre-made functions. Whereas PICAXE seems to be more of a platform to make things from scratch, but with support from a range of input devices etc.

If I wanted to make a led flash what would I need to buy with Arduino?

As far as I can tell, with PICAXE to make a stand alone project to achieve this awesome device, I'd need a 8pin chip, a resistor, 3 batteries, and an LED. (after I bought the prototyping board to do the programming interface etc.)

Can I do that with Arduino, or do I always need to start with one of their kits?

Thanks Steve.

Do you think I'm nuts trying to learn electronics this way?

ie is this going to complicate things for me going down the PICAXE or Arduino path rather than just learning electronics without the chips? I get the feeling electronics is chips.

Did you have an understanding of electronics before using PICAXE?

And books... Can anyone recommend any electronics books for the novice?

or online tutorials?

free is always nice.

Nope.

I'm an Arduino user. Although I only dabble a little bit, I come from an extensive electronics background and Arduinos are certainly a very good way of handling low level electronics setups.

One of my future projects is to use a One-wire system with an Arduino core to handle all necessary AP reporting. Temps, levels, pump and valve statutes etc.

At current all I have is a Blinkenlights setup. In pretty colours.

i also am interested in leaning about electronics so im watching this thread with interest

ive looked into picaxe, even made up a program to make my pump times adjustable which was relativly easy what i dont know is how to transform the program into a physical device

Cheers
pete

With PICAXE you buy one of their starter kits, plug in a usb cable and download their free software. (I guess you have already done the software bit) Then using the software you upload your program to the chip on the starter kit. Than as I understand it you can prototype your project on the kit, and either use it as is, or solder up a replica minus all the kit that talks to the pc, unplug your chip from the starter kit, and plug it into your soldered version.

so you workshop your design on the kit then you can make a hardwired copy. (the chips dont solder in directly, you solder in a clip that you plug the chip into (costs a 10 cents or something) so if you need to reprogram the device, you can pull out the chip, and plug it back into your development kit. You can also buy the interface to the PC to add to your project in a permanent way so you can plug a pc directly into your project.

I think the Arduino version works the same except you seem to always have the extra "to PC" hardware that stays with your project. I guess it might be more convenient but I think it costs more.

someone correct me If this is all nonsense

I've been reading so much stuff on these things over the last 24 hours I cant think straight.

Both systems seem to offer stuff like wireless connectivity, servo control, motor control, and lots of censors like light, and temperature.

The more I read of this stuff the better it sounds.

Bw & pete, even if you use readymade protoboards, be it Arduino or Picaxe,
they will have to connected to different sensors and to relays, steppers or displays
or other peripherals and some of them will need to be supplied with different voltage.
So you will need to learn electronics.

Most of those “plug in board” peripherals are oriented toward robot or RC projects
and may not be of much use or only a poor compromise.

I was interested in radio and electronics since being a little kid but only as a hobby,
never studied it properly as such.
An avid Ham, (ex)OK2KHD member during my student years.

You can take it easy and learn about the associated electronics as you experiment with simple projects
and build on it.

Bellow are some of the electronics resources I came across.

Picaxe programmer comes bundled with comprehensive manuals so you will not really need a book on it.
But here I’m jumping the gun a bit.

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/
http://www.zen22142.zen.co.uk/Prac/prac.html
http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/index.htm
http://www.electronics-lab.com/articles/electronics_courses.html
http://www.sentex.ca/~mec1995/tutorial/tutorial.html
http://www.doctronics.co.uk/design.htm
http://www.discovercircuits.com/resources/calculators.html
http://www.talkingelectronics.com/te_interactive_index.html

Excellent, thanks Steve.

My Aim is to gain an understanding of electonics, not just to be able to make a given device, so all that stuff is great.

I think I'm leaning towards PICAXE at the moment, but that might just be because I've read more about them, and all their stuff is consolidated into one company and forum.

The problem for me, is that I cant do both. Whatever I choose is pretty much what I'll be with for the foreseeable future.

I'm using an EtherTen arduino to control my aquaponics. This enables me to log water temperatures and control 2 pumps from a web page..



I am putting together a page for it with the code and schematic if anyone is interested.

It is coming together [url]http://bjshed.better-than.tv/projects/electronics/aquaponics-controller/]here[/url].

Catcha

Bj

Hi Guys,

sorry about the link not working, I couldn't see it because the post had to be approved...

Try this link: http://bjblaster.homedns.org/projects/electronics/aquaponics-controller/



Cheers

Bj

looks good. Ill be taking a look.

I don't know much about Arduino yet but I may get into it for wireless temperature recording in my different systems since my weather station only lets me get two water temps.

The Picaxe is easy and not costly at all so you could probably keep yourself very busy with it for ages before you feel the need to move on and by that time you can probably handle it.
I've made a repeat cycle timer along with a temperature controlled relay using just one M8 chip. The guys on the picaxe forum helped a lot and reading a bit of the manuals you can download for the chips helps too. And you can download the software free too.