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PostPosted: May 19th, '11, 16:36 
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freoboy wrote:
bythebrook wrote:
.
Before anybody raises it, water doesn't flow from North to South, it's just the way maps are drawn that makes North the top of the page. If it did, Antarctica would be a lot wetter.

really :shock: damn there goes my thesis :? :think: LOL people really thought water would flow N-S????


Whenever piping water from the Ord is mentioned, they aways say "Down to Perth." It's not down, is up and across.
One person on another site thought you only had to set a pump going and it would all flow from there. He worked in RO, but didn't understand friction loss on pipework.
The cost of the pipes, pumps, power supply for pumps, maintenance of same makes it prohibitively expensive to build and run.


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PostPosted: May 20th, '11, 00:26 
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:lol: Agree BTW by the brook... apparently the Ord diversion was proposed many years ago and never made sense to me :dontknow: . The diversions from Qld over the ranges to the top of the Murray is one thats more current and is still part of some groups arguments... and has apparently been proven that it would end up far cheaper than the water buy-back scheme, let alone the rest of the MDBP.

Ok, where do I start with this considering I was answering reactively last night and not doing a very good job of trying to get people to understand where I was originally going with this?

We are not against the idea of something needing to be done. What we dont agree with is the actual PLAN ITSELF that was poorly researched, thrown together and handed out to everyone... the monumental flaws in it... and the governments reasoning behind this particular guides implementation.

I agree that a river should run out to sea, but the proposed volumes arent required.

I completely agree with your views on the massive volumes of water dammed at Cubbie Station, also places like Timbercorp, Tandau and others... and from memory the MDBP doesnt include dams owned by these big corporates for some reason... which is another little doozy.

I know there was an overallocation by SOME states yes... but am SO not getting into a debate on that one - its too easy for us to point fingers at other States... and to have fingers pointed at us by SA that gets the raw end of the deal, and we do realise that... Ive already been attacked about putting forward my views politically so Im stopping there...

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The over-allocation of water quotas would ultimately have resulted in restrictions on farmers along the entire river... or pumps running dry... within a very short timeframe had the drought not broken in the significant way that resulted in "all the rivers running"

Ok, we have been under water restrictions for at least 7 years that hubby and I can remember...I would have to check with Dad for specific times and its too late at night for that... the water authorities do actually bother to work out how much water is available for farmers etc. During the drought there were years where we started on zero allocation, and after a few months we were allocated 5%, 12%, etc., and ended up with only a fraction of our allocation for the entire year... So Rupe, the restrictions have been in place for quite a few years now.

What I will say though, is that our area has been very pro-active in the last 20 years and uses much less water than further up the river... we have no open channels that evaporate and seep water - ours is all pipelined... we dont furrow irrigate or use overhead sprinklers that waste so much water, its all under tree sprinklers or drippers... but this is part of the problem... funding was allocated for water infrastructure but never delivered. This alone would have made the MDBP obsolete but Im not getting into that one either...


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The immediate to long term prognosis for "social", "environmental" and "financial" disruption... not just to farmers, but to the nation as a whole... were probably just as concerning as the implications that any individual, or collective group of farmers migh feel in the short to intermediate term
... but its not short to intermediate term.
Towns all along the rivers will become ghost towns, after 10 years of drought no farmer can handle this massive cut so we will see huge percentages of farmers going bankrupt. Businesses will have to close because the majority of their income stream that buys their clothes, shoes, magazines, cars, and so on, just cant afford it or have had to move away to find other work.

we are already in a situation locally after last year where we had such a massive failure of wine and table grapes, that we will lose many growers this year. The citrus industry is looking amost as bleak locally, but for different reasons.

Communities are pleading with the government to just put it off for a few years and review it so it makes sense, and till the farming industry stabilises and will have a chance to survive.

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and every pond/dam/weir.... bombed..
Bloody 'ell Rupe... do you understand the concept of the lock/weir system? You arent going to sway me on this one... we have way too many photos of the river completely bone dry for me to even bother trying to work out where your coming from...

Sorry for the novel... Its a pretty emotive subject... :dontknow:


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PostPosted: May 20th, '11, 00:50 
Netab, I have great respect for the way in which many of the irrigators have implemented water usage over the last decade... and even government sponsered water conservation measures regarding open bores etc...

And my comments regarding bombing "every pond/dam/weir"... were in relation to Coby... not necessarily the whole system... :mrgreen:


netab32 wrote:

We are not against the idea of something needing to be done. What we dont agree with is the actual PLAN ITSELF that was poorly researched, thrown together and handed out to everyone... the monumental flaws in it... and the governments reasoning behind this particular guides implementation.


Here I disagree with you.... the plan was extensively researched... indeed it is based on the most comprehensive research of both localised areas... and the entire system... ever undertaken...

I'm not completely sure what you mean by "the governments reasoning behind this particular guides implementation"... because the initial guide laid out both the reasoning, intent, rationale and proposed implementation model quite clearly...

And that including consultation with farmers and local areas regarding "social and financial" implications... and that was the point of releasing the draft plan to the communities...

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I agree that a river should run out to sea, but the proposed volumes arent required.


Well the science seems to suggest that it is.... if you believe otherwise, then please direct us to alternate studies...

Quote:
Ok, we have been under water restrictions for at least 7 years that hubby and I can remember...I would have to check with Dad for specific times and its too late at night for that... the water authorities do actually bother to work out how much water is available for farmers etc. During the drought there were years where we started on zero allocation, and after a few months we were allocated 5%, 12%, etc., and ended up with only a fraction of our allocation for the entire year... So Rupe, the restrictions have been in place for quite a few years now.


I'm aware of the restrictions in place during the drought... and that alone casts doubt on the validity of much of the farmers hysterical clamour...

It suggests that you, and others have been able to adapt and maintain a level of viability that lies within the proposed environmental flows suggested...

And that, while some may sell up, or diversify into other ventures... the concept that...

Quote:

Towns all along the rivers will become ghost towns, after 10 years of drought no farmer can handle this massive cut so we will see huge percentages of farmers going bankrupt. Businesses will have to close because the majority of their income stream that buys their clothes, shoes, magazines, cars, and so on, just cant afford it or have had to move away to find other work.


Is probably more alarmist than completely factual...

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we are already in a situation locally after last year where we had such a massive failure of wine and table grapes, that we will lose many growers this year.


The glut within the wine industry for the past five years... has meant returns and viability were marginal for many growers anyway... and it wasn't "lack of water" that caused this years "failure" was it??

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Communities are pleading with the government to just put it off for a few years and review it so it makes sense, and till the farming industry stabilises and will have a chance to survive.


Put it off... for how long... until the industry stabilises.... with a good chance that El Nino conditions will return this summer....

How long is long enough??... I suspect no matter how long... it will never be long enough...


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PostPosted: May 20th, '11, 00:58 
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Bloody hell Rupe... how do you type that fast?


Just hang on.... will get back to you in another couple of hours.... :D


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PostPosted: May 20th, '11, 01:38 
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http://www.basinplan.com.au/media/user_ ... 834000.pdf
http://cecaust.com.au/main.asp?sub=rele ... worth.html

... just had a quick read and thought you might find them interesting! :whistle: ... doubt Ill be back tonight so thought Id leave you with a little light reading coz Im noice :roll:

This one below is from your point of view... and I would like you to seriously look at the last 2 paragraphs (if you dont count the last sentence) with an open mind and considering it from MY point of view please.

This is one reason for the community anger... the focus is aimed at the corporates... but the big boys they are talking about can afford to buy as much water as they like and wont be drastically affected... unlike the mum and dad farmers.

... buying water is how we survived the drought by the way... it wasnt cause we could spare the "massive over allocations"... but because we mortgaged our livelihoods and sold assets to buy water.

http://www.fairwateruse.com.au/index2.p ... f=1&id=253


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