Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

My apologies Bullwinkle... my use of the words 'grass roots' was in reference to his general 'Back to Basics' explanation... which to me is what this was, a straight forward basic outline of the flaws in the MDBA plan.

You can bag me all you want for my opinion... but just remember that SA will be affected too... we know a lot of people in the Riverland, SA - the next irrigation settlement down the river which is only 1 1/2 hours from us.

Do you honestly think that their opinion is much different than ours when they can see their livelihoods being taken from them too?

Thank you mantis... I appreciate your view on it...

we are SO hoping the libs get back in before labour have a chance to implement this one!

Cheers.

and now I'm really frustrated.

BYAP members aside, This has nothing to do with you, but this video is crud.

I challenge this tool to a debate. I'll be un-prepared, he can set the agenda, he can even set the topic. He can say anything he wants and I'll argue only the logic, nothing else. I wont quote facts or call on reality. All I'll use against him is the logical errors and omissions of his argument, and all the times he contradicts himself. If his argument can stand up to a simple test of logic I'll clean his house and scrub his groin for a year.

This is a very poor example of the same crap that door to door sales people use to sell you new abdominal workout devices.

Or, take any 3 minutes of the video. And challenge people with a brain to find a problem or contradiction with what he says.

I couldn't stand to watch it till the end either, so challengers, start from the bit I didn't watch. I bailed at about 2 minutes from the end.

There are so many lumpy bits of bullshit that stick in the throat, that none even stand out above the rest.

%^&* it, take any 60 seconds of the video and quote it as if you agree with it, and I'll take it from there.

The MDBA failed totally to press its mandate, then got watered down even further by some peeponics from above, and now, this tool wants to have his way with my Darling Murray.

Shock jocks are destructive, but this shock diaper fails to impress on even the most rudimentary level.


Yep. That!



... ok I forced myself to watch the last 2 minutes and I've changed my mind completely. Know really

I appreciate that there are many "vested interests" involved in this debate....

But please... keep the phoney baloney "party politics" out of debate about this issue... it is too important for ALL Australians... particularly those of forthcoming generations...

For factual reference... it was John Howard, and the Liberal party that set up the MDBA... and the guidelines under which it operates....

Howard also commissioned most of the research that now forms the basis of the "plan"...

And a full set of "references" are freely available and included in the "Guide".... appendix A, to be precise... (but I guess the "actor" forgot to read that part )...

This argument is important and all, but lets not ignore this....

and I quote me...

"Shock jocks are destructive, but this shock diaper fails to impress on even the most rudimentary level."

Lets concentrate on the form for a while, and less on the content.

This is journalistic gold.

one vote one Pulitzer

Im allowed an opinion Rupe, and to us locally, politics has been the major factor in this debate. Its currently Labours choice to go ahead or not... We are just hoping that something... even a change in government... will stop the plan from going through ... Figured that most would gather that from my comments without me spelling it out

Just cause you called me phoney AND mentioned baloney Rupe.... I thought Id chuck this in just to give you something else to have a go at me for ... aint I sweet

from the Herald Sun, 2010.
As far as I know, the study on social and economic impacts has been ignored, and the plan is still continuing regardless.

Im kinda guessing from some peoples comments that if you havent been fighting/or had to endure reading the plan, what he is saying sounds like bullshit... when our family all watched it, we were loving the fact that someone GOT IT... got the whole stupidity of the plan and also gave us something we could pass along. It might seem like he is contradicting himself... but he is picking valid idiocies from the plan. Its actually pretty well done.
Why would he mention it? Its probably one of the few pieces of info that makes sense...

No, to my knowledge Howard didnt commission the MDBP... its the Water Act of 2007 that they are blaming howard for mainly... but Bourke wont change it, he is using it as the whole reasoning behind what they are proposing... which is the whole point of problem in the first place.

Its not a Water Act brought out the year after the dryest year in history thats the prob (which I believe is 2006's claim to fame), but the fact that Bourke wont change it and had told the MDBA to follow it to the letter, and that it (and its environmental agenda which was acceptable in 2007) comes before any other consideration that is causing 'basin wide' panic.

... have to admit it wasnt bad bullwinkle...

But for me the 'clean his house and scrub his groin' comment brought some interesting imagery to mind.

Stopped reading for a split second while my head tried not to visualise a middle aged man wearing a maids outfit, hard at work... scrubbing.

Sorry, I think he does a really poor job for your cause. It may make you feel good to hear it, but from someone with a different point of view to his and I'd say yours too, he doesn't really help your cause.

This debate is obviously a very emotive and personal one for you Netab as it affects you intimately, and no matter what I say I'm sure nothing will sway you from your point of view.

But likewise in a situation like this my point of view can't be swayed easily either, so I'm just going to back away from it, as I don't think anything can be gained..

Fair enough EB.

To be honest we werent expecting the derogatory responses, and I suppose that is our fault, as the whole argument is so familiar from our point of view... but for someone who isnt as intimate with it all and hasnt heard meeting after speaker after newspaper article, his vid would seem like a load of crap - whereas for us, the content is all valid and VERY familiar arguments (and a refreshing change from all the same info from the doom and gloom riddled industry leaders/growers that we normally have to listen to), just on a different platform...

This guy isnt familiar to us locally, and is based in Melbourne with his previous docos based on water politics, either there or much further upstream from us. It was sent to us from one of Mildura's largest businesses... selling gypsum, fertilisers etc for growers by the truckload... he was very adamant about watching it and passing it on to everyone we know in the basin... I just thought Id go the next step and post it here as we dont have much of a social life and thought someone might be interested

I know Ive said too much, and it wasnt my intention to initially. We just thought that for anyone that had heard about it but wasnt sure why the farmers were throwing such a stink about the whole thing, it would make for a light hearted watch, and everyone would get to the end and go... OMG - seriously!!!

Personally Im an optimist... I dont think that it will be implemented. They just cant be that stupid.
However, Im afraid from how some farmers are talking that it would come down to blood on the steps of parliament if it did. Some serious shit would go down I think...

When you look on it as more of a 'rally the troups' exercise (instead of a doco looking for new recruits for the cause)...
you can understand why its done this way perhaps

Except I'm afraid that I have completely the opposite point of view, and that's why I figured I'm best off perhaps staying out of it...

Nobody is going to build a pipeline from the Ord when it takes less energy (and is cheaper) to pump (sea or waste) water through a reverse osmosis membrane.
It's been calculated that water from the Ord would cost about $5/kL, compared to about $1/kL for RO. And that's just the pumping costs, not the infrastructure.
The water pipes from the Ord would be enormous to get sufficient flow.
Before anybody raises it, water doesn't flow from North to South, it's just the way maps are drawn that makes North the top of the page. If it did, Antarctica would be a lot wetter.

really damn there goes my thesis LOL people really thought water would flow N-S????

The arguements presented in the video might be "familiar" to yourself, and others in the area Netab... and probably what you'd like to hear...

but there are some uncontrevertable facts....

National control of the Murray/darling system was a necessity
Individual State based water allocations had resulted in water allocations exceeding the rivers capacity to maintain flow in all but the wettest of years
The over-allocation of water quotas would ultimately have resulted in restrictions on farmers along the entire river... or pumps running dry... within a very short timeframe had the drought not broken in the significant way that resulted in "all the rivers running"
The immediate to long term prognosis for "social", "environmental" and "financial" disruption... not just to farmers, but to the nation as a whole... were probably just as concerning as the implications that any individual, or collective group of farmers migh feel in the short to intermediate term
The system was in dire environmental straits
The water supply to major population centres was in direct and immediate danger
The management of the system for long term sustainability was impossible without a coordinated long term plan

As to the rivers running out to sea... and water being lost....

Sorry.... but that is what rivers are supposed to do... and for very good environmental and meteorologial reasons...

They act as a means of regulating marine salinity, pH and temperature... and with the latter... in a "closed" feedback loop.... future sustained rainfalls...

The systems also act as a cleansing mechanism... removing poisons from the land, excess nutrient and salinity buildups... and contribute to both the nitrogen and carbon cycles...

The greatest threat to the Murray/Darling system... is the capture of vast amounts of water from near the source... for cotton growing at Coby station...

IMO... Coby should be resumed... and every pond/dam/weir.... bombed...