Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

I found this today and it got me wondering..

http://www.livingmandala.com/Living_Man ... _2011.html

Really, a 5 day $1200 commercial aquaponics training course from people who it seems have no commercial aquaponics experience and have never built or run a commercially viable system?

People really need to think carefully about what they do and where they spend their money, this really seems to be a case of "punching above your weight".

jumping on the bandwagon? you could never lear all you need to know for a commercial AP setup in 5 days!!

i also dont like the 98% less water quote... while AP is good, it aint that good. something like 80% would be more realistic.

Thats it, everything I read on the two sites running the course was just filled with the standard AP blurb you read everywhere. Where's their big systems they've run on a commercial basis? Have they even tried a scale version?

We ran our big systems here for a fair few months but we certainly wouldn't turn around now and offer commercial AP courses.

It is the Friendly Aquaponics formula commercial system. Max did the commercial course with Tim Mann in Hawaii and is replicating the system and teaching bit - minus the experience I suspect. The photos in the background may or may not be their system.

But hey, they are commercial if they get 50 people to do a course every 3 months and gross $240k per annum

What an absolute - well I dont think the admins would be happy if I wrote what I really thought.



Wow! Almost 100 pages. That has to more than cover all there is to know about Aquaponics. </sarcasm>

I just hope they don't rip too many people off.

Ahhh right, I had a feeling I knew the name, they are the ones who put up the video using everyone elses photos.. Never responded to any complaints about using others stuff..

Noooooooo

Sounds like a perfect way to destroy an industry in its infancy

I can see commercial AP getting a really bad rap from the failed businesses they are going to generate...

Hope we're wrong but the spiel sounds a little bit too 'used car salesmanish' to me to be comfortable with ... waiting for the 'but wait, theres more...' line to be used... maybe a set of free steak knives

I was going to post this on the "You take the low road and I'll take the high road" thread, but I figured that this is perhaps a better place to put it rather than go further off track in the other thread.

My main question to Stuart on that thread was:
Are you working on a small scale system that you can up the size, or replicate in quantity?

I mean, I hate to seem like the pessimistic one, but can someone tell me the name of one aquaponic system that runs commercially, successfully, on plant and fish sales.

I've heard of plenty of start ups, but I know of none, especially in Australia that are running. Friendlies can operate when they run regular courses and have free labour, sweetwater relies on funding and free workers, so does growing power.

So far as the world leaders who tour the world talking commercial aquaponics, well do any of them have successful commercial operations? I don't think Wilson has had one yet, James Rackocy has been running systems at a university, Savidov the same, all funded research.

Yet, when you do a search online for commercial aquaponics there are suppliers in Australia and the US who state that they "supply and install turnkey commercial systems." Do they know something no one else does?

I think that in the long term there's the opportunity for aquaponics to work on a commercial level, but I don't think it's going to be based on currently available commercial production models like hydroponics and aquaculture. The food industry has had many decades to hone and refine production techniques and margins are extremely tight, so for a new method of growing to break into this market and compete, it's extremely difficult.

Perhaps the only way that aquaponics can be commercial in any sense is through smaller scale diverse community type production, or as part of a diverse farm. Perhaps a CSA style of model or similar, as just a part of a farm or community's overall production and income. Perhaps it requires those other income sources to remain profitable, the courses, workshops, a percentage of free labour, consulting services and eco-tourism. It seems that the current commercial models which are working to any extent require this as part of their income streams to be viable, as well as organic certification for higher product prices.

I mean come on, if the world leaders in the field have not had successful commercial operations after decades of research and experience, then if anyone thinks they are going to build a commercial system from reading the available literature, aren't they kidding themselves? If a supplier states that they can supply turnkey commercial systems, isn't that, as they would say on Hungry Beast, "a little bit bullshit".

I would love more than most to see aquaponics reach some form of commercial viability in food production, but from everything I have seen out there over the years, there have been many that tried, and the same number fail. 3-4 years ago when I went to Melbourne and heard Savidov, lennard and Rakocy talk on aquaponics, James showed some pictures of absolutely massive systems that had been built, but failed for one reason or another, and some of these had been built many years ago. Wilson showed everyone around his larger system at the time, it's long gone.

As I say, I hate to seem pessimistic, but people have been trying down this path for a hell of a long time now, in the US especially, so when people keep trying over and over again the same types of thing, who are they kidding?

It's going to require some major shifts in most people's thinking I reckon.

Hmmm, major rant... Off soap box now...

Hopefully I can prove you incorrect Joel

Still won't be a massive system though.

If Ap is as good as we believe then its just a matter of learning how to up scale and then manage large commercial systems.

As to why the researches havn't been able to make a go of commecial systems it takes a different mind set to operate a business than to be a scientist. I know many excellent highly trained, intelligent, skilled people who have started any number of businesses and have failed because they were not able to make the transition from being an expert in their field to being skilled in business. It takes many additional skills and a very different mind set. Ive seen many been successful in being sole traders or operating small businesses and then fall completely flat on their faces when they have tried to take things to the next level.

I think that in aquaculture and in aquaponics it is very difficult to have a small business be successful due to the economies of scale and sadly many are not able to make the transition to medium or big business without coming unstuck.


I dont believe that the failures that we have seen in aquaponics are the fault of the concept. All the posts on this forum extolling the virtues of AP are based on real experiences, the UVI results are the result of organised, systematic and well documented studies. What remains is someone to successfully take the next step.

Obviously I hope that we (me and my partners) will be able to do this. In our favour we have people with RAS, AP and prooven business experience in several different fields. Whether we can make it work or not remains to be seen. Obviously we believe that we will succeed and obviously so does our investor.

Well he might have recently done the "training"... but this self-promoting dimwit has been hawking his "experience" for a while now...

Indeed... by combining his permaculture background with "aquaponics"... he's developed the "Meyers System".... which rarely isn't anything that hasn't been discussed here and elsewhere for years before he jumped on the bandwagon)...

From his Socal site...


Most self sufficient aquaponics models on earth!.... well they might be models, and probably aren't actual systems...

He only lists a system being developed at Ukiah High School... and one at a mates place at Finca Las Nubes - a resort in Nicaragua .... that was supposedly due for completion May 2010... and "capable of producing 1,000 lbs. of fish and 20,000 heads of lettuce, cilantro and basil annually"...

You might note on his site... the call for "affiliates" to hawk his course(s) and no doubt his e-books...

So he's basically re-printing the "Friendlies" plans... and flogging them at 10 x the price.... and throwing in a bit of everyone elses public domain knowledge....

Frankly, this bloke has zero real interest in aquaponics IMO.... his only interest is in flogging "the next big thing" to an unsuspecting public.... and retiring to a condo in Florida...

Where he'll probably sell real estate....

Don't expect you to reveal the identities of those on board with your venture Stuart... but I'm intrgiued as to who the AP person(s).. of proven experience might be...

Well it looks like he has constructed a "model" at the above resort.... but there's no way it's going to come even close to producing the quoted figures above....

http://fincalasnubes.com/?page_id=1067

I wonder if he's going to expand the project..... or if the client has already exhausted available funding....

Come on Rupe. If you are going ask a question of someone using their words then please ask it correctly. I think Stuart is saying they have people with RAS and AP experience as well as people with proven business experience.

I know you used a smiley but I can't help but feel you are fishing for something.

Yep... wondering who the AP experience person(s) are that are involved.... consulting, or whatever....

The wouldn't be very many that could claim any "commercial" experience in AP.... and of the few, none of them would be cheap I would imagine...

P.S ... I should qualify that... there might be a few that might claim "commercial" experience.... but actually only one, or two that could do so with any level of credibility...

That's why I'm curious...