samion wrote:
RupertofOZ wrote:
samion wrote:
You seem to have taken Johns failure personally.
This is part of the reason I take/took exception to your post Crusty...
Yes we had to pull many of the trout, and yes the remainder died before we could address the extreme conditions that confronted us...
Is it a failure... well in the sense that I was presented with a set of climatic conditions of worse case scenario... and the result was the trout didn't get through... yes...
According to your previous post you had an idea this may happen and had planed for environmental controls, yet none of them where installed... I am not sure what that constitutes John in your version of events.
Yes Crusty... the possibility that we could push environmental limits was identified... and controls planned...
Data was being gathered and forwarded for analysis...
The client had indicated that they wouldn't proceed with any installation of any chiller (or other alternatives) until after their return...
Other possible solutions had also been discussed with both the client, and the firm doing the thermal modeling...
Ultimately decisions made to date have been determined by the client and within the budget set by the client...
All available data, projections and advice was passsed to the client... who decided accordingly..
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RupertofOZ wrote:
But such a scenario, while perhaps statistically identifiable and as unlikely as a 1:100 flood event, cyclone or tsunami... can be recognised, but not necessarily addressed within a given time frame... or more particularly within the clients timeframe and budget acceptance...
1 in a 100 year event? Not at all. The 20 year average minimum and maximum air temperatures spelled it out pretty clearly to me, given your set of system requirements.
Really... perhaps you can indicate the year and data set that highlighted the possibility of 7 continuous days of day and night temps that occurred Crusty...
In my thorough review of twenty years of dat... I must have missed it...
With regard to the mean temps I posted... I compared them to operations in Bunbury Wa & Macclesfield Vic... both of which actually have slighty higher mena temps...
...
I also talked extensively with the owner of the trout RAS operation within 30km of the location...purposely..
But none of the operations above bear any resemblance to the site in terms of relevant thermal modeling
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There has been no question of whether the client knew of it as I am sure he would be pissed if you miss led him with false information. You made contact with Toyesi long before the issue of temperature arose for the fish which indicates you knew there would be an issue.
Yes Crusty, I was aware of a potential issue and made contact with Toyesi, and air-conditioning and insulation “experts” accordingly to determine what was the best approach
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Many "things" were said in that letter not addressed to me. As much as Joel may not like it, I predicted you would lose those fish and you did. That has nothing to do with my "negative outlook on aquaponics" but my knowledge of aquacultured species.
Oh.. did you… perhaps you could point me to that… I don’t read every post on HQ…
Perhaps with your wealth of experience.. and knowledge and analysis of the site, which I wasn’t aware that you’d taken the time to do… you could have emailed me with your concerns and/or advice… it would have been welcomed..
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No doubt they will all end up in the fry pan. Did you not design the system to not require 24/7 supervision?
Indeed… and with planned modifications any levels of “supervision” would have been minimal..
There was/is an intended online monitoring system that I wish to install… but as yet the client has not authorised the installation
The system was never intended to be solely supported or supervised by myself once operational… b
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No, the failure was yours John. What we do is not natural and hence we are responsible for what happens, not nature.
Oh for goodness sake Crusty… if a severe hailstorm with hail the size of golf balls had ripped the greenhouse to shreads (statistically possible)… would you hold me responsible for that… or consider it a “lack of planning”…
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My lack of knowledge? Mate, I look forward to seeing your commercial anything pop up. I am very sure it will be one to watch.
I said lack of knowledge relating to the scale and methodologies required for “commercial” aquaponics…
I fully acknowledged your aquaculture and crustacean knowledge
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So what are these issues John? I raise the issues and you guys run for cover or crowd in groups. To give you an example; 12 months ago the information you presented to these forums was directly copied from aquarium forums, 6 months ago you vehemently objected to the point of solids filtration and advocated a stocking density of 30kg/m3 without any need for any filtration (anyone can do it). 2 weeks ago, you now think that 30kg/m3 (or is it 1000m3) can only be done with huge amounts of bio and solids filtration. Who is being "The Man" champ? I suppose fake it until you make it applies?
What absolute bullocks Crusty… I’ve been a member of this and other forums for nearly as long as Gary and/or since their existence…
And I constantly make a point of advising people that information presented from an aquaria perspective doesn’t necessarily translate to aquaponics…
If I quote anything from any source.. it’s because it has direct relevance to whatever is being discussed at the time…
And while I have posted 30kg/1000L or m3… as a MAXIMUM level of stocking… I have ALWAYS done so within the context of appropriate filtration and oxygenation…
Indeed my criticism of densities and filtration ratios being suggested above that level is exactly what lead to my ban on HQ…
And even Gary (privately) now recognises and agrees with those points and acknowledges that was (then) instrumental in my banning..
Here’s part of an email from Gary (05/06/10)…
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A much smaller number (including Joel and yourself) got caught up in the dizzy stuff immediately following the establishment of APHQ. At the time, I was defending Murray Hallam (in the false belief that I could probably modify his “misunderstandings” over time)……something that I now regret in light of what’s happened since then.
In reference to stocking densities that both Gary and Murray once proposed…
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How can you reconcile things like the “one fish per 10 litres of water” when you know that, coupled with some other system design issues, is probably responsible for more fishkills than any other single cause?
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Fair enough John, it seems my experience was lost in your search to identify me. I doubt you have any idea of the work I do with Rob McCormack, though saying so makes it sound like it. I have been about for much longer than you or your supplier have been around and I doubt very much that what we do would be classified as installations.
Nope, I was aware of you, who you were, and your love of yabbies.. and your collaboration with McCormack (excuse my previous spelling)… in identifying the various species… even have a saved photo of you all somewhere…
And I was referring to your systems that you have recently been posting
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I suppose you will have to wait to find out. Unlike you John who killed fish in your first 2 months experience. Speaks volumes I would think.
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Yep, surge protector on the power board blew.. and I didn’t notice it for a few hours… it was Boxing day.. and my Dad (from Brisbane) and other family and friends were at home…
So what… somehow you blame me for equipment failure… or are you blaming me for “lack of attention while I spent time with family…
I say again Crusty.. are you suggesting that you have NEVER had a fish kill??
Why is it that you seem so hell bent on assassinating my character… what purpose does it achieve. or what satisfaction does it give you…
You arrived on the HQ forum aboiut a year ago... what possible motive do you have for your attacks on myself??
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