Space-Based Solar Collection

Kilgore

DéjàVoodoo wrote:

Kilgore wrote:

I see no evidence that our resources are finite.

Other then perhaps the law of conservation of energy... :dontknow:

Law of Conservation of Energy - cannot be lost or gained...

But so far, our universe is virtually infinite. Our own solar system has enough resources for thousands of orders of magnitude population increases.

I can go into further support of this argument if you prefer.

Kilgore

Before we go any further, I am enjoying this thread, and am very pleased with the feedback on the many concepts here.

Once again, my appreciation for your attention is extended to you all.

RupertofOZ

Kilgore wrote:

Ok. There's some craziness going on.

Efficiency covers the recycling of currently utilized resources, i.e. landfill = recycling grounds. I agree that the current systems in place are not working, but not necessarily "unsustainable".

Oil, land, air, water, food: All sustainable

Oil --> CO2 + Photosynthesis --> CH2O --> Oil

Land: Create more; Japan (floating cities) and the Netherlands (fast growing, landwise, in the world) are doing a good job of this...

Air: O2 is not in short supply, only a little tinged. But that doesn't kill anybody, just increases cancers, etc... Cancer doesn't kill a society, only makes it shorter lived. :blackeye:

Water: Ocean, desalination

Food: CO2 + Photosynthesis --> CH2O --> Food

The trace metals that accompany photosynthesis are not running out. Precious metals that are in circulation or being mined are constantly being optimized through R&D.

Off planet mineral/energy capture is to expand, not overtax the current system.

China does have a growing economy, much of which takes after the Free Economy, but the Party still calls the shots. They may not be the best example, but a free economy is definitely the enemy. Sorry, but Malthus was way off.

Some craziness going on... has to be the understatement of millenium...

You can't seriously be suggesting that more oil/minerals... are being produced than consumed... or can be in our lifetimes...

And making "islands"... by digging a hole... and dumping it somewhere else... please...

And many of the other processes... particularly desalination... require vast ammounts of energy... certainly not energy neutral ... as you might like to suggest...

Precious minerals.. being optimised by R&D... faster than we're digging them out of the ground and using them... disposing of them ... who are you kidding...

And was Malthus "way off"... applied to the modern world... neo-malthusianism... is still very valid...

Perhaps you could benefit from watching the lectures of Albert Barlett on the exponential function... and it's application to modern life and sustainability...

The short version... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqcHG7QUK9k

The long version... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 021068736#

RupertofOZ

Kilgore wrote:

But so far, our universe is virtually infinite. Our own solar system has enough resources for thousands of orders of magnitude population increases.

I can go into further support of this argument if you prefer.

Very probably true... if we can both afford the money and the energy... and have the time ... to get there...

Before we destroy the very planet on which we currently exist... and IMO... we're well on the way to doing so well before we even get near our "solar system"...

But I'm open to seeing "further support" for your arguement... particularly any references, postulations or theories which support them... :wink:

Kilgore

By asking how crazy it really is gets me to where I wanted to be.

:think:

I'm seriously considering a doctoral program in environment/natural resources. Anyway, you've left me with a few questions that takes us to reality.

1. Quantity of resources produced today
2. Quantity of resources consumed today
3. Quantity of resources currently in the form of waste (tricky)
4. Resources necessary to sustain current growth (globally)

Now I will go in search of these things...

"The Half of Knowledge is Knowing Where To Find It"

Kilgore

Ok, ok. One last thing.

I leave for my 70 day Antarctic research cruise. Can anyone recommend some good reading about the topics mentioned in this thread? I'll probably bring a text on natural resources, so along those lines--or a popular book that covers these topics.

And yes, I'll post pictures, but it will be after the cruise (limited bandwidth aboard ship).

Cheers.
:wave:

hydrophilia

Kilgore wrote:

By asking how crazy it really is gets me to where I wanted to be.

:think:

I'm seriously considering a doctoral program in environment/natural resources. Anyway, you've left me with a few questions that takes us to reality.

1. Quantity of resources produced today
2. Quantity of resources consumed today
3. Quantity of resources currently in the form of waste (tricky)
4. Resources necessary to sustain current growth (globally)

Please add in some others:
5) what ecological services do we require as a society to remove our waste and return clean air, soil, and water?
6) what would be the cost in technology, materials, and energy to duplicate this technologically (if we have the hubris to try)?
7) might there be a wiser and more responsive test platform, such as biosphere3 (an earth-based closed system either above or below ground) or a space-based test platform, rather than doing the first trial run on our own life support system?
8 ) could we do better by emulating nature or AP (there is no waste, input for another cycle)? See biomimicry.

Fun conversation! Have fun in the deep south!

cjinVT

Kilgore wrote:

Can anyone recommend some good reading about the topics mentioned in this thread? I'll probably bring a text on natural resources, so along those lines--or a popular book that covers these topics.

I just finished The Upside of Down. To be frank there wasn't much "upside" and I feel like I knew most of the down already. What was new to me was a look at the Roman Empire thru the lens of energy.

If you haven't read Collapse or Guns, Germs & Steel those are great too.

cjinVT

Kilgore wrote:

Planned economies: China is doing pretty good.
...

Oil --> CO2 + Photosynthesis --> CH2O --> Oil

1st off China - have you seen the photos of brand, new empty cities? Why were they built? Why are they empty? In many ways, China is where the US was 80 years ago. Farmers left the countryside for the big city, lots of easy credit for a while, few unions, poor working conditions... It's gonna be ugly. Soon.

As for oil? I'm not sure what you're equation represents. Algae that makes oil? Depends on what the EROI is and where it's going.

timmy

we really don't need space based solar collection for here on earth - there's plenty of energy options here for us already.

all these books declaring the end is neigh, without exception, are a crock of shit.

i remember 20 years ago sitting wide eyed in primary school being told how their would be no more cars cause the oil is gonna run out before i get my license

when people start trying to whip people into a frenzy about the end of the world, i start asking what they are selling.

mantis

Solar cells and we just bought some :laughing3:

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