Politics Lets Vote

RupertofOZ

Sorry Gaz... but you're wrong.... neither political party has been able to "stop the boats" arriving on our "shores"...

Although technically, since Howard excluded Christmas Island and Ashmore Reef as part of "Australia"... in order to spin his claim that no refugees would be processed on "mainland" Australia, and that he would stop the boats... no boats could be said to have arrived on our "shores"

Neither party can "stop the boats"... short of sinking them, or burning them in the originating Indonesian ports... any more than King Canute could stop the tide coming in...

The current Labour party policy... is a continuation of the Liberal (Howard) parties policies...

The concept of processing asylum seekers in Timor... actually has the possibility of "stopping the boats" and putting the people smugglers out of business...

Gaz, I appreciate your right to your views, and would (perhaps surprisingly to some) solidly defend your right to express them... as strongly as you may wish... :wink:

But please do so on the basis of facts... not party political spin, 10 second news grabs, or pre-disposed ideology... because you can be sure that I'll respond with vigour...

The question of asylum seekers and Australias response during the last decade has been nothing short of deliberate distortion of the facts (Tampa, children overboard etc), and pandering to our most basis fears.... and has brought great shame to Australia as a nation...

Here are the facts.... for the "Howard" years...

Quote:

Fact: The greatest threat to the integrity of our immigration program is from those who enter legally and don’t leave the country when their visas expire.

Of the 20,781 unauthorised arrivals between 1994 and 2001, nearly 55% (11,382) persons arrived by boats. However in 4 of those 7 years the numbers of those who arrived by air was higher than by those who arrived by boats (DIMA). More importantly, the greatest threat to the integrity of our immigration program is posed by those who arrive legally on tourist, student or other temporary entry visas and do not exit the country upon expiration of their visas. A total of 54,748 people (ie. more than 5 times the number of people who arrived by boats since 1994) were estimated to have overstayed their visas and were illegally present in Australia as at 30 June 2000. 27% of them had overstayed their visas by more than 9 years and a further 22% had overstayed their visas between 3-9years. The top 5 countries of citizenship of over stayers were UK (10.1%), USA (8.1%), Indonesia (6.8%), Phillipines (6.5%) and China (6.4%). (Protecting the Border Immigration Compliance DIMA 2000 edition).

In terms of the mining tax... again, you're wrong... it will not stop the investment in any viable project...

The same bullocks was suggested when the Petroleum Resource Tax was muted/implemented... investment actually increased..

Primarily because the propoed tax axtually gives tax incentives and write downs for new projects... and the tax only applies to projects generating profits above a certain level...

Gazinator

rupert
fact number 1
there is a difference
the amount of boats that came in per year under the libs was the same as that, that came in per month under labor
that is one of the reasons why rudd was swiftly shafted by the union heavies

dont have a problem with legal immigration and never have, infact bring it on

as with the mining tax we probably will never agree and time will tell of course

Gazinator

bit of a generalization or is it

Which side of the fence are you on?
If you ever wondered which side of the fence you sit on, this is a great test!

If a Conservative doesn’t like guns, he doesn’t buy one.
If a Lefty/Greenie doesn’t like guns, he wants all guns outlawed.

If a Conservative is a vegetarian, he doesn’t eat meat.
If a Lefty/Greenie is a vegetarian, he wants all meat products banned for everyone.

If a Conservative is homosexual, he quietly leads his life.
If a Lefty/Greenie is homosexual, he demands legislated respect.

If a Conservative is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his situation.
A Lefty/Greenie wonders who is going to take care of him, who he can leach off.

If a Conservative doesn’t like a talk show host or media commentator, he switches channels.
Lefties/Greenies demand that those they don’t like be shut down.

If a Conservative is a non-believer, he doesn’t go to church.
A Lefty/Greenie non-believer wants any mention of God and religion silenced.

If a Conservative reads this, he’ll forward it so his friends can have a good laugh.
A Lefty/Greenie will delete it or go on the attack because he’s “offended”, the truth is offensive to them.

Well, I forwarded it.

RupertofOZ

Gazinator wrote:

there is a difference
the amount of boats that came in per year under the libs was the same as that, that came in per month under labor

Gaz... that's just not true...

The number of boats that arrived in 2009 & 2010... were roughly the same, some slightly more some substantially less.... as those that arrived 1999, 2000, 2001...

And the actual numbers of people on those boats were fewer...

1999, 86 boats, 3721 people
2000, 51 boats, 2939 people
2001, 43 boats, 5516 people

These represent primarily people fleeing Iraq and Afgahanistan... numbers then began dropping off...

2002, 1 boat, 1 person
2003, 1 boat, 53 people
2004, 1 boat, 15 people
2005, 4 boats, 11 people
2006, 6 boats, 60 people
2007, 5 boats, 148 people
2008, 7 boats, 161 people

The last two years has reflected the end of the Tamil war in Sri Lanka...

2009, 59 boats, 2750 people
2010, 59 boats, 2982 people (19 May 2010)

Source.... http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/bn/s ... c233686295

RupertofOZ

Just to lighten the mood... you'll see that the figures for 2009... "do not include; 2 arrivals in an ‘esky’ on 17 January 2009"...

Guess an "esky" isn't technically a "boat"... :lol:

I would predict that those (Tamils) fleeing Sri Lanka... have effectively done so...

And numbers of boats will decline significantly over the rest of this year and next... :wink:

Gazinator

25 boats from 02 to 08 under libs obviously had a handle on it

59 boats in 09 alone labor lost control

rethink rupert

RupertofOZ

No Gaz... you selectively ignore the facts... and the underlying truths...

The figures clearly show the "push" factors that relate to the periods 1999-2001 and recently 2009-2010... (war in Iraq,Afghanistan,Sri Lanka)

And clearly demonstate that neither party has ANY influence/control over the numbers of fleeing refugees and subsequent "arrivals"...

The policy enacted by the Labor party is EXACTLY that enacted by the Libs...

Sorry Gaz, but even presented with the facts, and underlying explanations... you still seem to doggedly cling to political dogma, spin and indocrination... for reasons that defy any real explanation, other than perhaps an underlying prejudice of some sort...

Jaymie

Gazinator wrote:

bit of a generalization or is it

Which side of the fence are you on?
If you ever wondered which side of the fence you sit on, this is a great test!

If a Conservative doesn’t like guns, he doesn’t buy one.
If a Lefty/Greenie doesn’t like guns, he wants all guns outlawed.

If a Conservative is a vegetarian, he doesn’t eat meat.
If a Lefty/Greenie is a vegetarian, he wants all meat products banned for everyone.

If a Conservative is homosexual, he quietly leads his life.
If a Lefty/Greenie is homosexual, he demands legislated respect.

If a Conservative is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his situation.
A Lefty/Greenie wonders who is going to take care of him, who he can leach off.

If a Conservative doesn’t like a talk show host or media commentator, he switches channels.
Lefties/Greenies demand that those they don’t like be shut down.

If a Conservative is a non-believer, he doesn’t go to church.
A Lefty/Greenie non-believer wants any mention of God and religion silenced.

If a Conservative reads this, he’ll forward it so his friends can have a good laugh.
A Lefty/Greenie will delete it or go on the attack because he’s “offended”, the truth is offensive to them.

Well, I forwarded it.

OMG

I do take great offence to this.
I AM a Greenie and I DO NOT FORCE my beliefs or opinions on anyone.
I DO NOT want to own a gun.
I would like to have more humane methods of producing and supplying meat products.
I am not a homosexual, but I do want legislated respsect, respect that should be available for all (even you Gazinator)
I do not leach off society, I work 40 hours a week in a conservation organisation.
I switch channels.
I don't believe in any gods, but people can believe what they want, as long as they afford respect to all.
And yes, I am on the attack because there is no truth to this as far as I am concerned.

Boris01

I was always wondering why I get stuck with Dennis Jensen as my federal member every election , despite never seeing him.
now I know the mentality of the majority of people in melville that vote for him,
( unless theres some other melville somewhere that I'm not aware of )
I completely understand now how such a backwards thinking climate change denying, boat hating conservative gets elected

Gazinator

boris and jaymie

have you ever heard of a sense of humor
maybe try and get one because it is fun to laugh

oh and rupert i thought we were just starting to understand each other

Boris01

I've been laughing for about 4 pages of this thread so far gaz

Gazinator

im glad your laughing boris
love your passion jaymie
laughter is a great medicine and i subscribe to that as well as being cheecky and trying to engage conversation

ITS NOT PERSONEL unless you let it be

:wave:

freoboy

Jaymie wrote:

Gazinator wrote:

bit of a generalization or is it

Which side of the fence are you on?
If you ever wondered which side of the fence you sit on, this is a great test!

If a Conservative doesn’t like guns, he doesn’t buy one.
If a Lefty/Greenie doesn’t like guns, he wants all guns outlawed.

If a Conservative is a vegetarian, he doesn’t eat meat.
If a Lefty/Greenie is a vegetarian, he wants all meat products banned for everyone.

If a Conservative is homosexual, he quietly leads his life.
If a Lefty/Greenie is homosexual, he demands legislated respect.

If a Conservative is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his situation.
A Lefty/Greenie wonders who is going to take care of him, who he can leach off.

If a Conservative doesn’t like a talk show host or media commentator, he switches channels.
Lefties/Greenies demand that those they don’t like be shut down.

If a Conservative is a non-believer, he doesn’t go to church.
A Lefty/Greenie non-believer wants any mention of God and religion silenced.

If a Conservative reads this, he’ll forward it so his friends can have a good laugh.
A Lefty/Greenie will delete it or go on the attack because he’s “offended”, the truth is offensive to them.

Well, I forwarded it.

OMG

I do take great offence to this.
I AM a Greenie and I DO NOT FORCE my beliefs or opinions on anyone.
I DO NOT want to own a gun.
I would like to have more humane methods of producing and supplying meat products.
I am not a homosexual, but I do want legislated respsect, respect that should be available for all (even you Gazinator)
I do not leach off society, I work 40 hours a week in a conservation organisation.
I switch channels.
I don't believe in any gods, but people can believe what they want, as long as they afford respect to all.
And yes, I am on the attack because there is no truth to this as far as I am concerned.

+1

Privatteer

RupertofOZ wrote:

The concept of processing asylum seekers in Timor... actually has the possibility of "stopping the boats" and putting the people smugglers out of business...

That's something I believe will never go ahead and if it does it will cost millions. Depending on who's figures you believe the detention center at Christmas Island cost 200-400 million to build and about 30m a year to run.
As someone who has been to Timor it is a almost 3rd world. Everything from power to basic sanitation is lacking.
You would end up with another prison just to keep the locals walking in for a feed.

Despite the spin certain people try to put on it both governments have limited options. Either got to process those that do turn up fast as possible and ship any suspect ones back or try and turn them around which opens another can of worms on human rights.
Just be grateful we are a decent distance from most of the warzones so Aust only gets a trickle compared to some other countries.

Snags

Hey Gazzinator
What happens when a conservative is a devout Christian and he alters laws or declares war on people to suit his beliefs?

War on terror/Iraq/Afghanistan (pseudo Crusades)
Morning after pill
No funding of family planning for the 3rd World
Stem Cell research
Family planning help line with no mention of abortion.

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Politics Lets Vote

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