Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Hey All,
I find I have to subscribe to this conversation, even though it has nothing what-so-ever to do with Aquaponics or it's operation and promotion.
That being said . . .

I do not like lip service or patronising attitudes in any way shape or form.
I do not suffer fools gladly, or any other way.
The annominity that this forum, and others, gives fools the perfect opportunity to lie, profess false tenets as fact and present themselves as the most self-righteous and outstanding pillars of understanding and acceptance. That opportunity works both ways!!

I don't consider myself "racist" because that automatically implies hatred or denegration of a particular "race or creed" in toto. I just don't like people who take advantage over others to their own betterment at the expense of those others! And I'm not talking about so called queue jumpers.
But I am discriminating. I am allowed to discriminate between good and evil, love and hate, good things and bad things and regardless of Colour, Race, Creed or Gender, I can still recognise and berate a bad person!!! without being labelled a "racist". It appears that that is not permitted!
If you express any opinion that contravenes some sort of perceived Morality and Ethics of any minority, you are labelled "racist". Give me a break!!!! I even heard during the Election build-up that someone who opposed Gay marriages was labelled a "racist"?

I don't consider myself religiously motivated, we presbyterians are a minority Christian group after all, but I was Confirmed C of E at age 12 on the insistance of my Mother without being given a choice in the matter and all my sons have married (and have had to adopt Catholism, which I find rather inequitous!) Roman Catholics.
I don't give any credibility to Astrology, we Virgos are not easily fooled!
I don't subscribe to, or am a member of, any Political party or doctrine.
I don't belong to any Union or Professionally motivated Association or Institute.
I don't belong to any Protest Groups, Lobby Groups or Local Associations, Chambers of Commerce or so called Service "Clubs".
I don't subscribe to any Magazines, Newsletters or www. Propaganda of any sort.
I try my best to spell correctly, use correct Grammar and punctutation in all of my correspondences.
I enjoy a cold beer on a hot day.
I don't wear a tie to work.
I do enjoy a cigarette (down to 5 a day)
I do enjoy an informed, educated, factual exchange and debate of ideas and idealogy.

I don't enjoy sanctimonious, self serving and opininated "stories" to denigrate an otherwise valid and reasoned opinion.
Now, having set the parameters of my contribution for what it is worth. . . . .

The so called "Boat People" is media terminology coined by some B Class Journo to boost his/her working rating. Please don't promulgate the term!! Of these people, I said PEOPLE, not Queue (for goodness sake, at least spell it correctly!!!!) jumpers, 99% are genuinely seeking "refuge". We used to call them refugees or "displaced persons".
Sure, human nature dictates that some of them are not genuine in their claim as as genuine refugees or Asylum seekers, but in this Country at least, you are innocent until proven to be guilty (except RBT, but that's another story!) and we accept that that it is better that the guilty go free as long as one innocent person is not wrongly convicted. I don't personally subscribe to that tenent. But surely I must be allowed to do that and express that.

What I vehemently disagree with, is sending young Australian Soldiers to Afganistan and Iraq for example, who continue to die for a Government sponsored program when "we" are accepting, legal or "illegal" asylum seekers into our Country who are not willing to stay and fight for their own beliefs?
Any asylum seeker (Male or Female!!), between the ages of 18 to 25 years, in my opinion, should be subject to at least 12 months of compulsory Military Service in Australia before any consideration is given to issuing Visas, Citizenship or Permanent Residency.
This may give them some sort of positive skills training and confidence to back their own Country, whilst contributing positively to their welfare, costs and acceptance in their Country of Choice's betterment and acceptance.
I've yet to hear any other positive solution from any Political Party or regime other than "store" them off-shore until they become forgotten about by the general population and then get people's backs-up by housing them in Motel accommodation here in Brisbane (and other areas of course) until residency is granted! while we have homeless families on the street!
While I don't agree with Gazinator on his/her belief towards the perceived great asian hoarde invasion by Boat ending up under our beds, I don't disagree with the options this country affords that allow that expression.
Perhaps some people are not as eloquent as others, perhaps some people can spell, perhaps some people can construct a grammatically correct sentence . . is that any reason to dismiss a base sentiment?
I think not!

Cheers; Ian King.

I won't try and emulate Ian's eloquent response. Merely to give my humble opinion.

I'm a 5 generation aussie, have a town named after my ancestors and have family monuments in the town but at the end of the day, I'm the son of immigrants (albeit 5 generations prior).

Australia is made up of all creeds colours, races, genders and even transgenders.
I don't object too much, I say the following.

If Australia can afford to support immigrants then we should do our bit to help the world, what we shouldn't do is allow anyone to turn up, claiming asylum.
I guess "careful immigration" ?
I have a friend working at customs and the number of people on boats coming to our shores is minimal compared with the number turning up at our airports 2800-3000 per month from my recollection. These are the hidden numbers we don't see. they pay thousands for a return ticket and false information about their ability to support themselves.

having just returned from many years working in the UK, they have it so wrong, they allow anyone in, and they not only rort the medical system once in country they bring over relatives for free medical treatment.
Whilst admirable we try and fix the worlds problems,we can't do everything.
Give a man a fish you feed him for a day, teach him to grow fish and veg's and he'll live forever... Our soldiers are dying in Afghanistan
to teach them how to live not exist.

This is the lucky country, we need to be careful not to allow immigration to become rampant. we should do what we can within our abilities, we should make those that turn up work and prove they want to become valuable citizens, we can't afford welfare recipients. Equally those with qualifications (even if not recognised here) should be allowed to train to our standards or merely prove themselves. (eg. doctors, accountants etc)

Enclaves are developing around the country some groups (dare I mention a name for fear of being called racist the Somali's here in Perth)
They live by the knife and are turning suburbs into no go areas.
we need to get these people out into the countryside earing and workign for thier living, in the places where my ancestors created an existence.
A year in the country building roads, housing whatever it takes to build infrastructure.

There's more, I dont' have all the answers, but I know we need to protect what's ours and share it carefully lest we lose it forever.

enough ramble... time for bed.

Red and Mantis, I agree and what I have said many times, we have the best quality resources, they are getting less so make them pay, Red this is correct, the money they make is mind blowing, the rich get richer! and the rich will do whatever they can to keep getting richer, scare tactics that another party used as tool to win votes, if they (big boys) lose the debate and still have to pay higher taxes, they will mine on regardless, and Australian people will benefit
Gaz as for the smaller companies, they in away are still controlled by the big ones, and mostly still over 50% owned by overseas interests, if you work for a mine (as we are not sure, you said you worked for Telstra, and you didn't, just stirring, which may be the case here) your bosses maybe using scare tactics on you, I mentioned way back that 3 mines are revving up within in 100km radius of here, and nothing was or is slowing their progress, and as Red's mine they are spending millions on infrastructure, if you do work for a mine then I suggest your job is safe, if you don't work for a mine and know nothing about mining then I suggest you study up. I also agree with most others, your immigrant comment sure did sound Racist to me, at the time I decided not to comment and humor you, I was sort of hoping the Mods would of edited it or deleted it, but I suppose any immigrant or indigenous followers of BYAP can see by the responses here that a very very small percentage of Aussie's are racist, if you make a comment you have to be prepared to stand by it and back it up, not fish for feedback and then try and back out of your comments when feedback is negative. This is exactly what you did earlier in this thread with your Telstra comments, and again backed out when rupe ripped you to shreds, Really you'd may make a good Politician, but not a vote winning one
Ian it has nothing to do with AP, this is why it's in a non AP section of the forum

morning all
nocky
if you read the follow up email to the telstra one you will see that i didnt write it so get your facts straight and read the intention of the email without your point scoring attitude
to all the mining experts
i work in a small company that does work for the small miners and they ,we and many others are suffering so dont give me just the select few comments that back up the notion that all the miners are filling there pockets with cash .because thats c--p

we need to protect our borders and i dont apologize for that one little bit although i may not have said it with grace and poise but i stand by it

to all the people in the world that have suffered or are still suffering .i do not know what they are going through and probably never will ,so i apologize whole heartedly for affending them and there families no one deserves to suffer:oops:

my intention is to point out the inept policy of a second rate labor government and of course everyone plays the rascism card
do you even know the meaning of it maybe you should look it up

Nocky I agree with you, the only point that worries me and I'm happy to be wrong.

I hope Labours new Tax doesn't scare away miners and investment.
WA provides a huge percentage of Australia's GDP, (As does QLD) and we have the smallest population relative to GDP input.

There is also massive inequality in distribution of funds. the Perfect example of this is GST.

Western Australia's share dropped $443 million to a rate of 68 cents in the GST dollar, the lowest level for any state since the system began.

So WA earns the money, the other states spend it.... don't you love equality.

So now we're down to forced national service and road gangs out in the countryside for people wishing to enter the country?

So how would we work this, would it be based purely on the amount of power and money you have when wanting to enter the country? We can fly in CEO's from around the world to take up the helms of some of our biggest corporations and I'm sure they slide through immigration without much of a problem. Do we send them on a national service stint before they can become a citizen? Perhaps the road gang? I guess not, they have money and power.

Weren't our early settlers damn lucky that the original locals here, didn't have advanced weaponry and gunpowder, we could just roll through and take over the whole country without much trouble..

Yeah, I know Nocky, I was just meaning to say that I don't normally contribute or comment on things that have nothing to do with AP on the Forum. But I couldn't hold back this time!

Sorry if I gave the impression that we shouldn't be discussing these topics on this forum.
On the contrary, this sort of debate is more than meaningfull; in that you gain perspectives from people you wouldn't normally encounter in your conversation group etc. People who have had direct contact with the topic, people from all walks of life and social strata, people from different backgrounds and ethics and especially, people who can express opinions.
I enjoy it!

Cheers IanK

EB

valid response, doesn't make what our (my) ancestors did right, but were here now, I was born here and it's my country, happy to share it though. I'm not advocating road gangs, just suggesting a way they can earn, equally is it right that we the population who work pay for them to sit at home accepting govt benefits. ? what's the answer ?

Those that have nothing to start with need to contribute to the country some how, we can't keep refugees on welfare. suggestions ?

Dunno that I have the answers Phred.. I think that all people on unemployment benefit should be required to do some work of some sort to receive their payments. I guess this would then cover anyone in the country, new arrival or born here, that if they aren't working and want unemployment benefits then they will need to be doing something.

I know someone who has been on the dole pretty much his whole life, he just doesn't want to work and has the attitude that every one should be able to do nothing and get the dole if they want to.. I wish they would make him go out and do something for his payments.

What about a time limit on unemployment? Maybe 6 mths then proof that you have had a period of work before you could qualify again. You need to have flexibility in being able to employ though which drags in minimum wage and unfair dismissal issues.

+1

On the issue of racism I believe as a nation we are too sensitive to claims of racism. I notice that the racism claims often come from regions where it is far worse (most of the rest of the world for instance). Not to say it does not exist we do have some real issues but I don't believe its built into our cultural, political, religious or legal systems. Most of it is probably a version of "stranger danger"

Gaz, if these two statements are linked... then I can't understand your position.
... the Labour government has continued the policies, other than locking people behind razor wire for years....of the Howard government...

Our borders are protected... we regularly intercept people attempting to arrive here by plane without visas... and those arriving by boat...

In the initial days of the Howard government, boats did land on mainland Australia, and accordingly much money was invested in detection, patrols, survellience and interception...

The reality is that both the previous Howard government, and the current Labour government have the same policies... and the "boats" are not only intercepted, but in fact nearly all of them now sail directly to Christmas Island (they use the phone on the wharf to alert authorities if they're not spotted earlier)... or to Ashmore Reef, which they know is regularly patrolled and they will be intercepted and taken to Chriatmas Island...

The only difference in policy between the two parties... is Gillard proposed a processing cebntre on Timor... and the Libs on Narau...

Our borders are safe... indeed our geographical position and the fact that we're surrounded by kilometers of oceans... means that we are one of the safest countries in the world...'

P.S... while the immigration rate was around 300,000 per annum at the end of the Howard years... it has now fallen, and been endorsed as "policy" by Abbott ... to around 160,000 per annum..

Gaz you originally wrote it to draw attention to yourself, you posted a disclaimer after rupe ripped you to shreds, the same is happening here, you made a comment that no one will back you on and now your trying to twist it to imply that everyone else in the world is misinterpreting what you said.
I have now and also in the past had a lot to do with the mining industry and they will not go broke for paying their dues, the same as every Australian does. If the company you work with is so small then the tax will hardly make a dent

morning
no nocky
read the the facts you will see your wrong again but im sure you will go on and on .it was for the the interest of others because i work in a mining related industry -comprehend

and again you mining gurus
some of the projects wont get of the ground if the tax comes in and there will be small business shut downs because of it and that it is a fact

and rupert if labor had control of the borders the boats wouldnt get to the shores . labor only changed their inept law recently when they shafted the great pretender mr rudd "remember".so we will see if they take control of the borders in the coming 3 years im sure but im sure it will be more policy on the run
more stuff ups,money wasting and back handers to the unions and the greens take the blinkers off labor is a rable.

Gazinator...the problem with the internet is that once you post something...it remains there forever. Some backup, some search engine cache...somewhere, somewhow it exists.

First you say you were a network architect...

viewtopic.php?p=242154#p242154




Then AFTER Rupert and Privateer rips you a new one...

viewtopic.php?p=242156#p242156
viewtopic.php?p=242182#p242182

Then you back pedal...

viewtopic.php?p=242223#p242223

Although the internet and online media is anonimous, you still have to be accountable for what you post.

To call someone having a "point scoring attitude" is a bit rich.

btw, care to explain why someone would "invade" our shores?

VLT
another one that didnt read the follow up email

so before you put your 2 bobs worth in perhaps you should heed your own warnings and read the follow up email which said i was given it by my father in-law

i dont care if you believe it or not, so get your facts straight please

have a great day no need to take all this good hearted batter to the other side

read the facts and dont let all your egos run away with your emotions

i love aquaponics as you guys do and am happy to batter strongly no need to spoil it

people come to our shores because its the best place in the world or they wouldnt come
so enjoy it