Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

I've been trying to get an idea of how much labour is needed to run a commercial system.

Joel said that he would need to more than double his commcial system and employ someone full time with a casual (plus find a market)

I've found quotes stating that a minimum of 40000 head capacity was needed for a lettuce system to breakeven.

I have found lots of details about how hydroponic production requires less labour inputs than dirt production but I haven't found any figures.

Can any one help. References as well as figures would be seriously appreciated,

Stuart

I can only refernce what I have done, but would say if you are aiming to grow lettuces for profit... forget it. You need to grow a mix of stuff to try and prevent heavy bug infestations. Also, I agree with Joel, at least a full timer with helpers on a casual basis would be required. And build up so that everyone is busy, that would be about at the level you would need to be operating at.... and then find a market... have a think about why people would pay a premium for your produce as you will need one.....and don't expect people who buy on a large enough scale that you will need to produce to give 2 shits about AP as a selling point.... for example currently we can buy lettuces at our local fruit shop for $1 each......

Thanks Stu. All good points and very valid advice. Certainly things that need to be considered but none of which answers my questions.

Certainly a commercial system is going to require some full time employment but it would be really useful to get some information on AP or Hydro system labour requirements.

The figure of a hydro system capable of producing 40000 heads of lettuce to break even is probably out of date given the price of lettuce in the shops these days but when that figure was arrived at did that include 1 or 2 full time employees or 1 full time employee plus casuals at peak times? If I could find a series of case studies of actual operations the amount of produce they produce and the number of employees they have that would be perfect.

I read somewhere that one employee could transplant 20000 seedlings into rafts in three hours but that is the best and only figure I've got on any sort of specific labour requirements.

The details on the UVI system are good from a production point of view and there are some details on the time required to maintain their system but no details of the amount of time it takes (man hours would be nive) to transplant and then harvest the plants.

Similarly Wilson and other commercial system sprukers have good information on the productivity of their systems and some even have details on the capital outlay involved. No one seems to give info on the production costs involved though.

If I could get some base line info from commercial Hydro systems that would be a start. I'll keep looking myself but if any one out there could point me towards the info that would be a great help.

I would think that that sort of information would be clased as commercially sensitive.

You would not want some of the big boys to know that each plant you produce costs 80cents as they could just squash you by selling their plant for 79cents.

Sorry this is not an answer to your question, but what sort of commercial system are you proposing? It sounds like you are heading down the DWC and monoculture path, but possibly NFT. Whichever, there are several other variables to take into account, such as your customer base and profit margin. Obviously if you are going to wholesale lettuce to the local retailers at 50c a head, you need to to produce at least twice as much as direct selling at $1 per head. This also affects the size of the system, operating costs (labour), capital costs and ROI.

Then there is seasonality to take into account, unless you are going to house all in a climate controlled environment for continuity of production, you will need more labour in the fast growing times than in winter.

Talk of industry norms means you are thinking of competing with highly developed and specialist systems such as hydroponics, with something that's relatively new and for which figures are are only just coming in. Applying hydroponic NFT figures to AP DWC will be an approximation at best, and possibly way out at worst.

But to KISS, I would be inclined to work backwards from a F/T wages bill of say $1,000 per week/person including o/heads (super, hols, sickies, insurance, etcetera). So to afford 1 full timer my experience tells me I would want to sell at least $2,000 gross per week of produce. So in what I think is your case, that's retail 2000 lettuce per week or wholesale 4000 (so assuming a 10 week grow out 40,000 is about right if wholesaling). From that you can work backwards and determine how many holes you'll need, which depends on your grow out times etcetera, and hence the size of the system. Once that's determined add the capital costs of that system and figure out the ROI you need and adjust the system accordingly.

Can one F/T equivalent service a 40,000 hole system? That depends on the systems, procedures and protocols the business operates under. Also bear in mind that it's a 7 day a week system and automation will only get you so far before you need 1.3 F/T equivalents.

Obviously the lower your start up capital requirements the better the ROI and profit/viability. Also obviously the sale price of the final product and grow out period affects profits. I would also look at value adding, so growing basil, turning into pesto and selling it at $5 a tub may make more sense than selling fresh basil - but without numbers this is pure speculation.

What is not speculation is creating a market niche for AP organics. This has a story to tell that would give a marketing edge and price premium to speciality retailers, which flows back to the grower - particularly if you keep the supply chain short. So selling the lettuce for example at 60c is a 20% premium which is very doable, if people aren't doing this, they should not be in business. A 20% premium makes a huge difference to profitability/viability.

All rubbery figures I know, and I apologise if you knew all this, but the quality of the answer depends entirely on the quality of the question, which was "I've been trying to get an idea of how much labour is needed to run a commercial system."

Maybe it would be easier to aim a little lower. Going into something that your not currently doing eg commercial hydro, is going to be hard. Learning a new field while introducing newer elements as well. Easier to set up a hydo system and then work out later how to introduce the fish. Or set up something smaller that you can cut your teeth on. Find a few outlets for the produce and work on that. A smaller system that you can build in the back yard that produces X amount of plants per day or week. Then if that works out you'll have an outline for a larger scale. And it will highlight problems that might be easier to address in a smaller system but may be something that has to be address in the design stage in a larger system.

Ok I'll accept the possibility that the problem with the answers is in fact my question.

Your (Mcfarm) approach of working backwards is a good one to get an idea of a base line in production you need to exceed in order for a system to work commercially but can one FT worker produce 4000 heads of lettuce per week and effectively run a 40000 head system by themselves.

The examples I have used were not meant to indicate my intentions or directions in thoughts they were merely some of the few examples of the sort of information that I am after.

Information on labour requirements for RAS systems is readily available. If I want to run a vineyard I have the information on the labour requirements for such an operation with and without an attached winery and cellar door. I can get the information from my files on the labour requirements for wool, lamb, beef and poultry production among others. I can pull off my hard disk details of production capacities vs man hours and expected capital return for 5 different sawmilling methodologies. I just cant get them on AP plant production (because I suspect they are not out there) and I havn't yet managed to find them on hydroponics. The details will be out there some where it is just a matter of finding the right articles.


Mcfarm you are trialling a system to test its commercial potential. Did you do a business plan before you sunk the money (20k?) into the pilot? If you didn't then the size of your pilot seems rather large for such early beginings. Such a business plan would include details of expected labour costs, yes?

The presence/absence of a niche marketing strategy and the expected price of produce sold are all important details but they are also highly variable. Labour requirements for particular methodologies are not (or at least are less) variable. Raft production will take a certain number of man hours to produce a certain amount of produce. Different capital invesments will have a certain payoff in the reduction of man hours required to produce a certain amount of produce. For example Joel's raft lifter is an excellent investment for even small ystems (seems to be be anyway.) But at what point is it worth adding winches to move your rafts around in the raft tanks rather than with poles. With the details of the number of man hours required to produce different amounts of produce you can make decisions on what capital investments to make.

Don't get me wrong the points that you have raised (Stu and McFarm) are valid and need addressing but what I am after is details on labour requirements at this time.

And before anyone brings it up please don't mention how much labour costs I need to know the amounts of labour I would need for a range of different system configurations. I'll assign dollars after I have assesed quantities

Of course it would but where is the fun in that .

I've been working on AP from an experimental and theoretical angle for some years now. The next step in my research is to get the best details I can on labour requirements on as many different production systems as possible. IF I can be given them by memebers of this forum as I have been given (and in some cases purchased) information before then that will save me time. IF not I'll go find the info else where and when I someone else asks the questions hopefully I'll be able to answer it.

Wilson lennard is doing a commercial systen at ceres enviroment park contact them maybee they can help

I suspect you're right, labour figures for AP do not yet exist. You could probably name the truly commercial AP systems on one hand. Particularly if you exclude the system selling, plan selling, AP tours, teachings/manuals and so on that are attached to new ventures.

The UVI figures are almost meaningless as they are from a research institution with generous funding.

The Friendlies figures are a bit dodgy too as they are yet to cost in their own time and effort - and they sell plans and teaching.

The Red Dog system people might be worth talking to. I've lost the link, but they were farming DWC AP basil quite successfully - Mildura I think. Modest commercial set up been going for 2 years so should be able to give an indication of labour requirements. From memory there were 3 family members involved.

But I'd talk to the guys who run Practical Hydroponics and Greenhouses magazine casper@hydroponics.com.au they'll be able to point you in the direction of a compliant commercial operation willing to share labour figures.

Mine was to be a commercial trial, but lack of labour has meant it has evolved to a large scale semi commercial/domestic system that one person can operate on 2 hours a day. It can be scaled up if required and may yet be if some new plans come off.

Business plan? I've been in biz for 40 years with countless start-ups, and a qualified valuer (commercial specialist). I am self funding, and these days my biz plans are back of the envelop jobs. But $30k for a large domestic AP system is OK, and hey if it means I save 3k at the supermarket, I can rationalize the outlay - it's only money

But I'd talk to the guys who run Practical Hydroponics and Greenhouses magazine casper@hydroponics.com.au they'll be able to point you in the direction of a compliant commercial operation willing to share labour figures.
i bet they dont

I'm pretty sure red healer fell in a heap not long after it was set up....

Depends who is asking and how it's done...........but 'twas ever thus.

Red heeler in a heap? - pity their set up looked like it had potential. Saw a couple of articles on them in The Land and the Weekly Times, so assumed it was a goer. I see their url is no longer too.

Yep... Red Heeler didn't make it past a year in operation... and AFAIK didn't sell a single fish...

And the "Red Heeler" operation was funded by a "grant".... and IMO... was never going to be a successful "commercial" operation... way too small...

As to labour/production cost figures.. for AP.... there aren't any...

The only people that could possibly come close to providing them might be the now defunct Barramundi Blue, and Taylor Made...

But again, work backwards... assuming 4000 lettuce per week... that means you need to ... (assuming a 80 hour week)...

Harvest, plant, process, pack and dispatch 50 lettuce per hour ...

Deal with ordering, inventory, accounts, taxation, enquiries, marketing... and systems maintenance and pest control...

There's at least one full time and a part time casual position right there IMO...