Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Hi all,
I have taken my old water tank ( galv corri job ) off its stand and cut it down for FT and GB. Am scrubbing it out at present.
I have a query, While considering the AP set up I looked at Bill Mollisons Permaculture book and read up a bit on aquaculture. I am keen to have a polyculture in tank and thought of creating a bomby like structure in the tank for smaller fish to refuge. What sort of rocks could I use and what ones should I steer clear of in regards to altering Ph levels and stuff. Or are their other methods to protect little fishes.?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Skipd.

Hey Skipd,
just a bit of a heads up . . .
1. Do not use Galvanised tanks for fish tanks unless they are Aquaplate lined or similar. Zinc is bad for fish.
2. Do not put rocks, gravel, plants or sand in your Fish Tanks. You are only asking for problems with anaerobic dead spots, rotting food collection points that can't be cleaned, encoraging territorial behaviour in your fish and places for algae and all other bad things to grow that you don't want in your Fish Tank.
3. Keep the bacteria in your grow beds where they belong.
Permaculture is one philosophy, Aquaponics is quite another.
This sort of thing has been tried before and it doesn't work. Save yourself some grief.

Cheers IanK

So are you saying that to much stuff in the FT will hamper the bacteria process for the GB?
The tank was on the stand when we bought the property. How would I check if it is galv.? Any idea what the other corrigated tanks I have seen people using are made of.?
Kind regards, Skipd.

easiest thing to do to be safe is to buy a can of bichumen (sp?) paint and paint the inside. Once properly cured (a week or more pending temps) it will be fine for fish. I second what was said above about bits and pieces in the fish tank. The less spots for fish poo and uneaten food to settle the better.

I have used that bitumen paint on building works horid stuff to apply, but if thats what it takes.
Sounds like AP more suited to monoculture, but people seem keen to mix and match a bit.
Plus it seems marron like gravel and stuff to maintain their shells.
Skipd.

Hi skipd again,
I'm not trying to be a downer, but don't try and re-invent the wheel.
Every golf shot has been played before!

Galvanised Iron Tanks on stands are pretty common and if yours was produced prior to about 1990, it will not be aquaplated.
Bitumen paint is OK, but as you say, a bugger to apply, but if that's what it takes to be fish safe then do it.
Fibre glass, epoxy coatings and poly liners are also safe alternatives. There is nothing worse than hearing of an enthusiastic begginer (or an experienced practitioner!!) reporting dead fish from a basic error in planning or operation, especially when there is lots of helpfull, practical advice here, and elsewhere, to follow. Start small, learn from experience and others and have a happy introduction to AP.

I'm into my second year of planning and building my system/s and only got "proper" Fish Yesterday!!!
But they seem to be happy, apparently healthy and look like lasting!
I jumped in too early a while ago, expecting all to be OK, and killed 200 Jade Perch, 150 of which I had ordered for others to pick up! The look on their faces when I had to tell them their Fish were dead is something I never want to face again.

There are three basic things I have learned from my good and bad experiences;
1 Get your system running mechanically and physically correctly and reliably, water circulating, pumps running, aeration happening and all running on a 24/7 basis before you do anything else.
2 Get Nitrification happening by planting in your selected Grow Bed media and start fishless Cycling, regardless of the regime you wish to adopt (i.e. Constant Flow, Flood & Drain, NFT, DWC, towers etc. etc.) May take 6 to 8 weeks, but be patient : test, test and test!!! until no Ammonia, Nitrites and little Nitrates. Don't rush it, or try to rush nature, after all, this is replicating natural processes that have been going on for thousands of years. You won't change that in a couple of days!
3 When Cycled, introduce Fish to suit your area without overstocking!!

and . . . . back-up, back-up and back-up!! just like computing.
Fish husbandry is just as important as plant husbandry for a sucessfull enterprise.

Good luck with your adventures into AP, it's a fasinating world and there are very good people out there who are into it who can always help you, share their knowledge and experiences and it doesn't cost you a thing, except a bit of time and consideration.
Just My Humble opinions.

Cheers IanK

Hey Ian,
I reckon my tank is at least that old, Ive done worse jobs.
Any heads up is way appreciated. I am not even a newby and appreciate the advice everyone is so willing to share. I have been reading of fish losses on this forum and it doesnt sound good.
I am going to visit the BYAP shop on Sunday to check things out.
The points you mentioned about letting the system start up echoes what I have been reading here and your point re 24/7 trials is a prudent one I feel.
At the moment I just want to get the components ie tanks as good as they can be and look into plumbing, pipes, bell syphon etc.
I can imagine getting the whole thing built and working 24/7 will take some time but I am keen as to get going. Finding the time can be a bit tough with two little ankle biters and I am not talking about dogs!
AP on. Skipd.

Clearpond Pondseal is another alternative. Not sure how it compares price wise to the bitumen but it was pretty easy to use.
Also there is a sandstone color which I used makes it easier to see how clean bottom is.

Step by step.

I strongly advise reading the Basic Info and Useful Info sections of this forum. And read them pretty thoroughly, they are not too terribly long.

Sealing the galvanized tanks is important. Some people may have gotten away with using them unsealed/unlined for a time if their system had a really high pH but the zinc is just too toxic for so many aquatic animals that it is best just to seal it from the beginning. With a high pH system, the plants don't thrive.

Then as to poly-culture. That can be challenging for an AP system unless you realize that by it's nature the entire system is a poly-culture. You need several types of bacteria for bio-filters to work. You will probably be planting many types of plants to use the nutrients and then WOW, you have fish growing in your veggie garden and they are fertilizing your plants and the bacteria are turning the fertilizer into something the plants can use and the plants are purifying the water for the fish. Oh and you will probably have worms growing in the grow beds too. Now that's a poly-culture!

If you feel you must carry the poly-culture thing right into the fish species, that can be a bit more challenging. As noted, objects in fish tanks tend to collect solids which can become a real problem. I know display aquarium have gravel in the bottom and all sorts of decor and stuff for the fish but those systems are not growing edible size fish and they are not being fed the same and they still require lots of cleaning. Think very carefully before adding any extra objects into an Aquaponic fish tank. The reasons for adding it better outweigh the reasons to avoid it and the extra work you will have to do to keep the solids from building up. A breeding tanks is generally the only reason I see for such things and normally that will be separate from the main fish tank. Some different types of fish can be kept together but it is often easiest to pick one at least to start. But you might go look up Nocky's system where he is managing some polyculture. Might be worth reading that thread. http://backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=4904&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

i started my first system this spring, and glad i let things run for a couple weeks before adding just minnows (as others have used goldfish) -
after a bit i added crayfish (nothing like the aussie crays!) and 15 hybrid bluegill, then 30 perch after a little while longer.. since then quite a few fish "dissappeared" when i was out of town..
i do have to clean all the pvc hides out at least once a week, and i "siphon vacuum" the bottom when the hides are out....the first time i "cleaned" the tank, i killed my one sucker fish..
is it worth it? for me, i'd say yes because i'm learning more.. and having a ton of fun with it
i'll have to move part of my system indoors over the winter, which will be another learning process..and i definitely want to go bigger next year (go figure)

That pond sealer sounds good especially if I can get it in a sandstone colour.
Its got to be easier to apply than the bitumen.
I guess being a newby I have lots of crazy ideas as I am trying to sus out the best options. When I was reading the Permaculture stuff I came away thinking along the lines of getting the FT to be as self sustaining as possible with the GB being an extra filtration and expansion of the system.
I would be keen to hear from people who have three or more species in their tanks and any issues they have with that and how they have their systems set up.
To have the fish for some sort of regular food source I could imagine single species of the same ages would be better.
As I have 2 small children covering the FT is essential. I was thinking of marine ply with a few holes drilled in it for some light for fish. With a trap door for access.
Skipd.

well the plans have changed a bit , this is what I have come up with.

some more pics

another one

I have buried GB pipe in GB and had the system kind of going for 2 days. I set up a timer this afternoon. It has been taking about 15 - 20 mins to fill GB but about 2 hours to drain. It seems that when the FT pump stops the water actuall keeps running into the GB which seems weird because the FT pump is lower than the GB outlet.
Is there something I can do to stop this?
I have put my 5 guppies from my aquarium into the system. They looked very lost at first but seem to have settled in OK now. Except for the one that died this morning. As the system wasnt running much yesterday I figure airation was probably to blame and maybe I should have cycled it more to get smelly bitumen order out.
I agve the bluemetal a really good wash but as the system cycled today the FT got pretty mirky from the bluemetal. I might empty the system out tommorow and then fill GB a couple of times to give the system more of a rinse.
Fed the Guppies a couple of times but they just seem to miss it or ignore it. Unlike in the aquarium where ther would really get excited about it. I hope they are still OK in the morning.
Counldnt resist planting a couple of little parsly plants and corriander. Washed off roots with seasol and put in GB. Can I Put say a cap full of seasol into system once rinsed out and filled with new water.?
I have not filled system right up at this stage only half filled FT. All very exciting

I