Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Can you link to where you read that Hydrophilia???

http://aem.asm.org/cgi/reprint/2/1/21.pdf

(voice of Yoda): Mmmm! Sources have we! Sources good! Yes!

Thanks Hydro.... haven't read that one... will do so later...

It's old... 1953... ... and obviously doesn't reflect current suggestion... that it's not nitrosomonas, but nitrospira that's responsible for nitrification...

Fortunately, the method they used to determine populations of converting bacteria was to measure conversion of ammonia to nitrite, so specific species may not really matter.

However, other strains may respond differently and different species (as you pointed out) may be the primary actors and may do better under different conditions. Someone should get a couple buckets, a couple pumps, a couple liters of gravel, and run a test or three: 1ppm vs 5ppm. I've been planning to do it, but ....

Humm... then there's variables of pH and water temp... easy enough to keep constant in a localised "bucket" experiment... but near impossible in the real world...

Although you should be able to keep both within a determined optimal range...

I'm a little perplexed, I would have thought the Nitrites had to rise before the Nitrates did? My system has been cycling since 12/02, I've added some 'humonia' this afternoon.

Am I off the mark in what I'm doing?

Well I suppose it's possible that you missed a nitrite spike. Had you bee running and cycling the system or any of the media at all before you got the test kit? Or might you have dossed with something ahead of time before doing any testing? How are you cycling? What have you added to the system. Are there any plants? Might there have been fertilizer in the dirt of the seedlings if it wasn't well washed off?

There is also a chance that source water can contain nitrates.

In the normal course of things with a brand new system and clean gravel, you will dose and the ammonia will spike first then nitrite will spike for a while as ammonia goes down and finally nitrite will start to fall. If there are no plants to start using the nitrates, the nitrate will usually start climbing along with the nitrite.

Of course if you were to use already cycled gravel, you might not see much in the way of ammonia or nitrite spikes and the nitrate will simply climb indicating that the conversions are taking place.

I was running the system for a day or two before I got my test kit, it's being cycled on a 15minute flood every hour with the remaining time as the draining of the bed. I have added some plants, the dirt was 98% washed off only some small piece of potting medium remained tangled in the roots.

Always a possibility we have been getting a fair bit of rainfall since I've started cycling.



That's what I was expecting to happen, I know the tank area has sediment in it now. The gravel was washed before being added, just not well enough I guess.

I'll keep testing and see how it goes, this is new territory for me so it's a learning curve.

At what point do you add the plants? After the system can process 1 ppm of ammonia to reach 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite within 24 hours?

Add plants when ever it seems appropriate. There really is no hard fast rule. If you add advanced seedlings before you start dosing though, they may suffer for a little while till the nutrients become available to them. You can plant seeds whenever the time is appropriate (see planting by the moon.) Seeds usually don't need nutrients right away.

If you want to have a trigger or indicator of when to plant, I suppose you could wait till you have a readable nitrate value. That usually happens fairly quickly.

The stricter rule in my book is when to add fish. My rule is don't add fish till your ammonia and nitrite readings are 0. If that means you need to stop dosing several days or a week before you plan to get the fish and your not quite complete on the fishless cycling (as it the ammonia and nitrite don't quite get to 0 within the 24 hours) then so be it. I would hate to have anyone place a brand new batch of fish into toxic water because they just dosed heavily the night before the fish arrived. Or have to do big water change out's just so you can put your fish in the system. By the way, excessive water changing can actually hinder cycling.

This is a small indoor test using diluted compost tea as the nutrient. I have a 10 gal container with an airstone at the bottom. Gravel will go over that and the diluted compost tea. I guess I can't really test if I have plants because the water should be below the level of the gravel. I'll let it bubble away for a few days and keep a log of the test results. When the ammonia gets to 0 I'll add more tea, then maybe the plants.

I was in the supermarket today and saw some ammonia but I hesitated a bit. It said "clear ammonia" - I guess as opposed to the "lemon ammonia" right next to it. It was a little over $2 for a quart. Is this the real deal? There were only 2 ingredients.

I'm leaning towards adding a 1/4 cup of manure tea to get the ball rolling. It's been "steeping" for like 8 months - the last 4 frozen solid. Just starting to thaw now. I had no qualms about using it in my dirt garden last summer. Seems more complex than ammonia but in a good way. Thoughts?

I like to use the free hummonia or aged pee really. I'm not sure about using any of the cleaning ammonias and I've never tried using compost tea or manure tea.

Sometimes a particular mind-set really gets to me! and trying to achieve "instant gratification" by using artificial chemical enhancers, starters and the like for a 'natural system is one of them!!
Nitrosomas and Nitrifying bacteria occur 'naturally'; all it takes is a little time. If you can wait 8 months for a cup of manure tea, surely you can wait 6 to 8 weeks for an Aquaponics system to cycle naturally, with or without fish. You are obviously prepared to have the patience (note the spelling! not patients, which Doctors have!!) to grow fruit and vegies along with fish for more than 12 months at a stretch, so why try to "accelerate" the basic natural starting process? It has been shown anedotally that the use of introduced Bacterial and Chemical starters is less than a load of crap! It ends up taking just as long to cycle anyway!!

Use urine by all means, but I'm telling you I wouldn't want any traces of the Medications, excess Proteins and other Human pathogens that I produce anywhere near my system; my Wife absolutely agrees!!
Using natural seaweed extract fertiliser for your plants to grow, while awaiting Nitrification to naturally occur in the system, with the attendant daily water testing, is all part of the wonder and beauty of Aquaponics! You are setting up a system that will require long term disciplined operation: regular fish feeding, planting and harvesting, water testing and maintaining a healthy working system. The initial start-up duties should ease you into this long term regime. Not something to be rushed and end up killing Fish and Plants.

Wasn't it one of Hollywood's mantras that Costner said: "Build it and they will come!"
Too true for Aquaponics systems.

Cheers Ian K

I thought if you don't have fish - ever - then you need to provide an ammonia source.