Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Check.


Check. And I may be able to eliminate long-standing water...
It looks like flouts can be coupled, so that when GB number 2 drains, the flout in #1 gets sunk as well. Any excess water only stands until the next growbed drains. If each 300 stock tank has its own internal flout this looks doable. But I may size up to 2" FLOUTs to allow room for the "signal" tubes which will connect the flout boxes to each other. I will post my tests on YouTube...



Check. "Only" 200 gallons to elevate

Check. They will all be 300 gallon RMSTs so one size indeed fits all.
If I install a branch of citrus nursery pots I will shoot for their overall aggregate flooded volume (pots + flouted basin + second level + its basin) to have a similar volume. I will set the flood level of each citrus pot lower than veggie growbeds get. Rather flood them often and shallower than deep and long... Does this sound reasonable to any citrus people out there?

One reality check left. Splitting it to the next post...

Rick

Smin,

I really like the idea of using Expanded Shale vs gravel at 1/3 to 1/2 the weight, and at way less cost than hydroton .....

I want to put that in some 5gal buckets, or large pretty containers setting on 2" x 6"s on the rafters over my FT, as trickle down bio filters with invasive plants like mint growing in them, and things that ya don't need to get to very often.........

I might even consider using it in my GH and outside Grow beds depending on the cost.......

It seams you have done some research on brand & cost, can you post some links....?

And if the sources are local to DFW as you say, I could go get a small dump truck load at a time for the grow beds.......

Ya RS. smin has pretty much talked me into it as well. I appreciate the research he has done. He brought a bag over this weekend, and while it won't fill the growbed I'll get it cycling this week in the test system and verify it does not effect pH. Like you, I'll need an entire truck load (maybe more) once I get started on the GH system.

Mark

Hey RS!!!

Oh yes you can.
Check with these guys first. Wow, $63 a yard if picked up. I'm jealous...
Soil Building Systems
972-831-8181
866-SOIL-SBS
1770 “Y” Street
Dallas, TX 75229

My local Living Earth sells it at $106 a yard, but discounts 10% for local garden clubs.
Living Earth Technology
Jeff Robnett / Paul Tomaso
972-869-4332
1901 California Crossing Rd.
Dallas

TXI Expanded Shale & Clay Contact web page

Main headquarters: TXI TruGro
1341 West Mockingbird Lane, Dallas, Texas 75247, Phone 877.647.3383

Another TruGro phone number: 800.228.2987

And around the country:
esc@txi.com
Dallas 972 647.3806

Houston 713 329.2608

San Francisco 925 746.7163

Los Angeles 951 774.2557

Denver 303 499.1010 x3027


How ya doin' up there?!?

Rick

Thanks for the links,

At $63 a yard, that is not bad at all, and i think that it's porosity will allow much more surface area for bacteria than gravel and that make's it worth the extra cost......

Everything is going good here now that the temps have warmed up and it's stopped raining....(may get more by fri) it needs to dry up enough that i can go get some truck load's of compost for the dirt garden, and get it into the garden area without getting stuck, or making 10" deep ruts......

the 1/2 blue barrel grow bed in the GH has plants all over it..... will have to post pic's again soon

need to get some maxicrop w\iron for it, some of the leaves are a little yellow

Talking about a header tank, raised, after pump, to "dose" the feed going to growbeds. Reason? In order to advance a sequencing valve. Without making the pump stop and go...


Sounds pretty simple. So I just need to raise that volume of water to, let's see:
ground level + 16 cm to top of DWV water return
+ 25 cm to provide slope over ~40 feet length of DWV
+ 10 cm to base of RMST
+ ~60 cm to media surface
+ 30 cm for minimum fall to seal the spider? (Do I need this considering the header siphons? Strong flow=Maybe not needed)
and actually pump the water up to this height + the depth of the header tank itself + (maybe) a little more fall to avoid any backflow situation

I'd need to have the drain of the header tank at 141 cm over the pond, unless I missed something. But that's not bad.

If an above-ground FT is added later, the header is still needed, and must have its inlet below the FT overflow, correct?

Rick

It has been rumored... as in I have not seen it myself... rumored that some H-E-B groceries carry Maxicrop, and at the best price.
I check every one I see but none in Houston, Pearland or Richmond have it.

The rumor came from the Victoria area.

It's almost like a Redneck fish hauling system!!!!!LOL

I expect that the outflow from the Flout/header tank could run straight to the indexing valve, when the flout first sinks, you have the entire depth of water in the header tank to cause the valve to seal. I don't think you need a huge amount of fall below the Flout tank to where the indexing valve is. But that indexing valve along with plumbing fittings takes up several inches of space (depending on which size you get) so I expect the bottom of the Flout/header tank needs to be about a foot above the tops of the grow beds. The bottoms of the grow beds probably want to be at least several inches above the top rim of the pond.

As for Flouts on the outlets of the grow beds, I don't think you need that (take up a bunch of space and need extra height.) Just do the grow beds with stand pipes and add more holes in the bottom of them if you need them to drain quicker (just make sure they still flood with the amount of water you feed to them.)

Sounding good so far!!!!!!!

Exactly. Minus one sleeping blue dog!
Still shopping for adequate header tank. It does need to be up there a ways. Hope the Sago palm will hide it some.

You recall I was trying to fit in what could be called a "Footer" tank, ya know, a shared drain box. Research into something not-too-wide and long-enough for a FLOUT yielded several near-misses that were too much volume. Should be some 200-gallons out there. But dang, that's a lot of water and a lot of height. (I should paint "SAVE FERRIS" on it. Ah whatageekIam)


Am I being stubborn? I went 300-gallon to provide room for the FLOUT. Kinda like the path in the middle of a keyhole garden. I see the pluses as:
A) fast drain down, really pull some oxygen in
2) Goof-proof, not needing adjustment or "enough flow to trigger," it just works
3) I can couple them - prevent leftover or latent water from standing around while the next GBs drain - if One Draws Down, they All Draw Down (ODD ADD)
D) gives a surge to push out standing water from the return line. My DWV has to go "up" at the end to clear the edging of the pond. I'm scared of trying to break a hole in the concrete for the return.

While the minuses are
-> takes up more room than a standpipe or bell siphon.
It needs a couple inches clearance on either side of the pipe, but think about it, it doesn't need to accommodate the full width of the floaty-box except where the box actually travels. I plan on gravel-filled plastic crates to hold back my media, and those crates can themselves be planted in, just not with the longest-rooted vegetation.
And there is always "add more growbeds"
-> takes extra height
Yeah, but... 24" deep growbed
-> 3.5" water remains in the growbed. Standpipe w/holes does not leave water so #3 is not an issue

I am still thinking... I hear you... Let's keep debating this.


It's really happening!!

There is a bit of "Cool" factor to some of this But. I think the whole "footer tank" Flout stuff is just gonna add complexity and cost as well as eat up some of your "height" and all, plus if all the grow beds are draining into the same drain/footer tank, then you have to add back in the backflow prevention which will add cost and problem points.

All my new grow beds that are being fed by the spider have stand pipe type drains. There is probably only two inches of water left in the bottoms of those beds. A Flout doesn't drain down better than that so doing Flouts doesn't buy you anything there.

Fast drain. What are the real benefits there. Well in my old set up with siphons, I liked having the fast drain since it could give some splashing back down into the fish tank instead of a tiny dribble from slow draining beds with stand pipes. However, with they way my system is currently set up. The beds are fairly fast fill (only fairly fast since I put quite a few fairly large holes in the bottoms of my stand pipes so lots of water filters through my beds during a flood cycle) and the beds are fairly fast drain. I get a good amount of water plashing back into my sump tank almost full time. And if you are running the pump constantly with some bypass going, the extra aeration is full time there too. So, unless you are doing monster size grow beds, I don't think there is all that much benefit to the fast drain. I must say, with the extra deep grow beds and doing an indexing valve method, I seriously doubt the added complexity on the drain end will really show any real benefit. (If you were going with only 12 inch or less deep grow beds, there could be more benefit to assuring the beds drain completely and quickly.)

On the cool factor side, you already have a FLOUT going on the Header tank end of the design, I don't think you need more there.

About the lip on the pond. If the bottoms of the grow beds are level with or above the top of that lip, you can have the drain lines do an up and over the edge just fine (All mine do this to drain back into my sump.) I just placed my 100 gallon stock tank beds on blocks. 5-7 blocks seem to work fine to support the 100 gallon tanks just make sure to get them all level before plumbing and filling the beds with gravel.

However they end up draining, I need a couple more of the 300 gallon growbeds to get to 1:1. But I have 6m plus 6m fenceline to play with. I'd have a 6m by 10m plaza except it's interrupted by blackberries.

View toward NE corner

Drain line can run at fence bottom along the North side, and turn the corner to come South to return to the pond.
One plan would be just to run supply and return all down the fence.

Question. Does the return drain pipe need to slope like greywater does? Or can it be flatter since we flush it out 24/7?
I will need to figure out the level of my highest, most distant RMST growbed, to plan the main header to feed them all.

I looked for a picture of your stock tank drain plumbing, is there a closeup in your system thread?


These 300 gallon ones are almost 5 feet across. But they share the same mold for the flat wall bits as the 100gal... If I'm reading correctly, you have a uniseal in the flat part of the wall opposite the manufacturer's drain plug, low down, a 90degree holey elbow, holding a standpipe.

That seems to be the option competing with the two holes, centered, 2-inch shower drains, and dig/raise to keep the bottom accessible.

Drilling holes is so... permanent.

Hum, I'm not sure if there is really a good close up of the drain plumbing. I'll look.
Page 91 of my system thread

I actually put a 1 1/2" uniseal in the flat part next to where the drain plug is, not opposite.

Rubbermaid really does make your life easier...
Buy a 300 gallon stock tank
Tip it on edge
Step inside
Walk it to your site like a hamster wheel

I knew I could not HURT it doing this. I am gonna pick another one up tomorrow at the other Tractor Supply Co.
They should have them in the toy department...