Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

System Update - Test results: tested twice today, once around midday then again this afternoon. This morning:
PH - 8.0
Amm - 0.5
Ites - .35
Ates - 2.5

this Afternoon:
Ph - 8.2
Amm - 1
Ites - .35
Ates - 5

Have been back in Melbourne for a few day so havn't done tests for a few days but from my 0 readings a few days ago it seems things are on the way up.

Is everything going okay? and at what Ammonia level should I start to get concerned and take action.

This is excellent Bundy, the system is starting to cycle! Don't worry too much about amm and rites until they read about the 3-4 mark each, at which point, stop feeding and let the rates bacteria catch-up. I could be wrong with these numbers so someone please correct me, but haven't had any fish deaths with amm at 3 and rites at 4, just stopped feeding and then they dropped after 24hrs. I'm glad things are moving in the right direction. I have one of those tubs for you and drop it off say this coming weekend (?) if you like.

Quachy

Awesome, I'll be home Saturday but not Sunday this weekend. Would like to get another 2 IBC's as well in the next few weeks. get on setup for trout for winter and the other maybe for Sump/Yabbie tank. Frustrating being off work but not able to do alot because of my knee.

So stop feeding when Amm's get to 3 and Ites 4, no worries will test again tommorow morning probably.

The toxicity of ammonia is related to both pH AND water temp...

At your pH.... the margin of error is significantly reduced... consult the chart below... and stop feeding if you're anywhere near maximum level... that may be as low as 0.2 - 0.5... depending on water temp...

Go with what Rup said! My pH has always been in the 7.2-7.4 mark so the 3 ish has been OK for me, with your pH according to the table, 0.5ish is as far as you want to go... I would reduce the feed if your tests are showing same or higher readings of amm. If you are feeding 3 times a day then cut back to 2 and do reading at end of day. if still high, then cut back to one feed until amm either drops or does not go higher. nitrite bacteria can then catch-up and the nitrate bacteria can also build up.

IMO, with ammonia, first thing is to follow the chart...

If within the chart limits, then regardless of your pH and temperature, when cycling with fishes, I do not think you need an ammonia reading higher than 1 to get the process moving...

Do remember that if you experience algae blooms, it will swing the pH... Hence affect the ammonia toxicity...

Nature works in mysterious ways... bacteria grows faster with warmer temperatures, but ammonia is more toxic with warmer temperatures... in short, although you can cycle a system faster in summer, you cannot speed up the process with fishes in the system...

IMO, at those levels with summer temperatures, I would stop feeding... if your bacteria has not established, further feeding will just push the ammonia level higher and you will need to do a water change... Each water change will restart your cycling process to a certain degree, hence slowly down the cycling...

Also if you have not salted your tank to 1ppt, do so ...

okay, wondered if someone would suggest this. To avoid confusion what salt and how much do i add to MY system with 500lt of water.

a little bit of a forum search and i'm assuming 500g of salt for 500lts, I;m not at all concerned about my GB as there is nothing happening in there.
I pulled everything from the GB and topped up the gravel level (with a bucket of Quachy's gravel) and another 50lt of Hydroton, then replanted the dismall plants, I'm waiting to see if these plants start to take off so i have an indicator of when the system starts working.
What salt and am i on the money with the doseage. Is the dosage critical to fish health? ie: will too much be detrimental to fish?

Salting 1ppt works out to be 1kg per 1000L of water... so yes you are right... 500g for 500L...

The type of salt you need is seasalt or natural lake salt... here in Perth, Bunnings sells the natural lake salt for pool salt... so if you can locate pool salt that has been harvested from the sea or natural lake, you can use it.

As far as I know, most freshwater fishes can take up to 3ppt without problems... In fact, 3ppt is commonly used to treat diseases... Salt helps create a protective layer on the fishes body... Although some plants don't take 3ppt well...

Anyways, for your case since the salt is used to mitigate nitrite poisoning... 1ppt is sufficient and plants can survive that...

Todays results -
PH: 8
amm: 1
ites: 0.5
ates: 5

Water temp should be around 20 deg C with the last few nights being rather cool but the next week is looking to warm up and I'm just looking to stay on top of things so:
should i be planting out the GB alot more things look like they are starting to green up in the GB.
If my Amm levels start to spike what steps can i take. My water level in my FT is starting to drop again so can i add some water to keep things under control with out doing a water change.

Well something is happening... if you need to top up the water in the tank, do so... it might actually help bring the levels of ammonia down slightly as according to the chart, it is just borderline toxic for the fishes...

If you have not salted the tank as advised, salt asap... your nitrite is climbing... Fishes affected by nitrite poisoning will show signs that appears they are short of air... but as far as I remember it is the nitrite that affects the blood from bringing oxygen to them... so no amount of bubbling air is going to help, except salt... so salt immediately...

IMO, your goal now is to cycle the system, don't worry about the growbeds at the moment... you can get your system cycled without any plants in the growbed... the plants are there to use the nitrates when they are available... Nitrates below 100ppm are typically fine for the fishes for the short to medium term...

Don't forget that the more plants you have the more transpiration happens... hence you may need to top up the water again with more plants...

Plus (if you follow the moon planting), the growth period comes to an end on Jan 07... the next growth period is Jan 16... adding plants now will not take much nitrates or grow much...

If you have stop all feeding, I don't think the ammonia levels will increase anymore... The fishes will be fine without food for a few days... they would prefer to starve than to swim around in toxic water...

well since i dont have anything to worry about in my grow bed I think the salting is a must due to your persistant advise. I do not want to lose any fish after so long with no losses, I will top up my water today to 500ltrs and add 500g of pool salt.
I will have to do a bit of research on this moon cycle planting as I have noticed it mentioned a couple of times now. But from what you say I should be looking to plant again around the 16th of Jan. Is that seeds or seedlings?
I'm also going to do a little experiment with the PH of my water using a bucket of tap water, to find if my PH is going to continue to stay high. This is covered in another thread.
I'm getting a fair bit of algae appearing on the sides of the tank. It was mentioned that the algae can case my ammonia to swing and especially in warmer weather. Will try to put some insulation and shade cloth around my IBC FT to aid in both the algae control and temperature over the next few days. Damn this bung leg it slows me down too much, so many things to do!

Creative1 has wrote an article in one of the BYAP magazine about moon gardening...

I believe that there are also some information on this forum in regards to that and heaps on the internet...

I found this website to be great for providing temperatures and moon cycles... I have attached the
melbourne, but on the left hand corner you can enter your postcode and provide more localised info...
but the moon cycle should not change...

http://www.weatherzone.com.au/vic/melbourne/melbourne

Briefly, from memory, a day after new moon, plant leafy greens. All the way until the full moon, plant leafy greens and above ground crops... a day after full moon, plant below ground crops... Last quarter, don't do any planting.. there is no energy from the moon during these cycle. In fact, it is said that weeds are best taken out during this phase...

In regards to seeds or seedlings, I have never really worked that out... I find that if you drop seeds than germinate quickly, they grow up quickly during the growth phase, but for seeds that germinate slowly... there will grow in the next moon cycle...

test results-
Ph 8
amm 1
ites .75
ates 5
temp 6pm: 25C

Went to local hardware but was not able to purchase salt. I will be heading to Melbourne tomorrow morning but will hopefully pick up some salt at a bunnings on the way home and salt the system tomorrow afternoon. Hopefully not too late.
Does the cycling still look like its on track? I have not been feeding since the Amm got to 1. The fish were going mental with hunger this afternoon (warmer water)

Warmish day today but cooler again tonight. Managed to get the FT insulation done today. Wired some 50mm polystyrene insulation to the frame of the IBC and then wrapped the whole FT in black shade cloth. Looks really good. Hope it can keep the temperature of the water a bit more regulated and also it is a lot darker in the FT now so hopefully kill off some of the algae.
I realise that i will need to do something to shade my GB also but i'm a bit torn about how to go about this. I have seen systems that are covered by shade cloth sails, others that are in greenhouses, others with small shade tunnels over each GB.
I think the latter is the most cost effective method and easiest for me to manage at the moment.
Just wondering if it should be a completely covered tunnel or adjustable so i can shade more or less depending on the time of day, temp, ect....

just make sure that the ends can be removable so the heat can escape.
then in the winter you can put film on to create a warmer environment.

My FT is getting to around the 28-29 on the 40+ days and its shaded from the afternoon sun. I'm sure that if I had more FT capacity it would be more stable.

regards

matt.