Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Yep , flog the naughty man , feel sorry for the ladies who slept with a married man ..... I mean , they aren't to blame , could be guilty I mean they're female

Chilli,

You sound a bit upset, like I were a bureaucrat who was going to impose a law . . . I am not. People can do what they like, but they must also live with the consequences.

There is no logic for what we want. We only use logic to justify what we want after the fact of wanting . . . as you are doing. And what you describe is what just about everyone in the planet wants: more meat(or fish). Not because it is sustainable, not because it is in our best interest . . . just because it has to do with status (or something similar), not health, not the environment, not economics, not sustainability . . . just what we want. Well, it's our choice, is it not? Even if poverty what is we get.

But, again, as I tried to explain, IF it is the goal of producing food to feed and sustain the poor in a healthy and economical way, more meat and fish is not the way to do so.

m

SO ....., we are back again to giving them water and protein biscuits,,, better add some valium or they may just TAKE that fish protein:)

We should buirn down their Shanty huts also , I mean they don't NEED them to survive , they just want them , so they only need to sleep under a tree ,, but if it'ds not raining they don't NEED the tree they just want that , so lets cut the tree down:) Slippery slope happening here......

Chappo,

No one's talking about what must be done to the poor. We are talking about choices and, hopefully, what is ultimately sustainable. I mean, what is the alternative to being sustainable?

m

Capitalism...

The thing YOU are not getting is that YOU are trying to make the decisions for the poor. THEY don't want YOUR choice:)

Yep Rupe Capitalism ,, feeds BILLIONS of people,,, wish there was a working alternative , but they just don't work.

Both sentences are well put Chappo.

The problem Chappo... is that "capitalism" isn't driven by a need, or even a desire... to feed millions of people... IMO... it now consumes so much energy in perpetrating and continuing itself (systemicaly).... that it isn't sustainable... and near collapse...

As such, millions will no doubt ultimately starve... or die through "collateral damage" through wars of attrition... while the system fights over the scraps of the planet...

I agree, that an alternative hasn't been found to date... but it must... and sustainability must be its basis... and by definition, that precludes unsustainable, or at least unmanaged and unrestrained continued growth...

In turn, such a definition is basically contrary to the conceptual heart of capitalism... or at least to those who would benefit most by it...

So do you argue from a point of principle Chappo... or are you just banking on being on the side with the biggest guns....

No reason that capitilism cannot be sustainable - it just hasn't had to be yet. However, it is a logical evolution for it.

Our material cycles as they are are truly wasteful. This is not a fault of capitilism, simply the result of it being cheaper to throw something away and dig up the material to make another (capitilism at it's most fundamental).

As soon as recycling something becomes cheaper than digging up and utilising the raw materials, recycling will take off and capitilism will start taking baby steps in the direction of sustainability. Recycling will be big business instead of the struggle it currently is.

You could well be right Chillie.... and "Bucky" proposed that many years ago... the taking of a worldwide inventory of resource stocks... including recyclables...

He also suggested the inter-connection of all power grids... which would make the move to solar/wind renewables much more possible... as base load could always be obtained from somewhere in the grid whenever needed...

let them eat cake!

True Capitolism is a cruel system and true socialism/communism creates a bunch of lazy asses. The systems have to be just in caring for those who can't care for themselves while there is positive behavior reinforcement. Rewards for those who work hard towards goals of prosperity with penalties/desipline for those who try to cheat. But I agree with CD, capitolism can become more sustainable especially with the help of a little green legislation and tax incentives for renewables and liabilities if they are not, and it needs to be phased in to where the big market changes don't hurt those who have big investments that still need to make returns on. We don't have to shoot ourselves in the foot, But progress in sustainability needs to pick up the pace. As sad as it sounds another great economic depression will do it quick, But I would sure hate for that to happen.

I believe ours is that way but I believe the grid itself should be government owned and everyone who feeds in or draws out should be paid/pay and be taxed equitably. We had to pay extra for Nuke power to guantee power companys profit they should do the same for green power.

Problem is, for pure capitalism to make the changes to sustainable, there probably has to be a collapse of something before the change is made. Capitalism generally wants to wring every last drop out of something possible profit making resource before it gets to the point that some "other resource" actually becomes "cheaper". Much talk of "carbon trading" and such to essentially make the more sustainable choices cheaper to push entities to become more sustainable is an artificial means to attempt to get capitalism to become more sustainable in order to save the planet.

Capitalism is likely to let huge portions of the poor populations die because it is not financially cost effective to transport the food from one place to another under our current global situation. There are places where farmers can't sell their milk because it costs them more to sell it than they will earn from the sale, so a lot of it is being dumped and wasted. This is largely due to a combination of capitalism with regulation.

I agree that pure communism/socialism doesn't really work but neither does pure capitalism (pure capitalism doesn't have government regulation nor taxes.)