Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Here is a new thread to hopefully return the Vermiponics thread back to it's original purpose of discussing worm ponics.
http://backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4175&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=165

Hopefully we can more the hijack of discussing the best ways for the starving poor to become not so starving or poor.

Let me start off by saying, a permaculture approach is probably the best way to help the poor and hungry in rural areas to feed themselves. Heck even in cities a permaculture approach could have a huge beneficial impact.

To start, people are likely to utilize animals that will have close to 0 feed costs to get started. This might be guinea pigs that you collect free grass for or pigeons that will forage for food once established. Choosing appropriate chickens or muscovy ducks that free range (outside the garden plot) for food. In many poor areas, every family keeps a small number of poultry for meat. These animals are not being fed grain.

many of these people are not going to grow huge fields of rice and beans as they only have a small plot of land to work for veggies so they are likely to grow other veggies to supplement the rice and beans that they buy.

I've tried growing soy beans in my garden and I'll likely not bother with them again. Took up lots of space for only minimal yield and quite a bit of work involved in using the beans for anything. Perhaps it was more to do with my climate but I'm better off growing southern peas like cow peas or crowder peas. Better Omega 3 to Omega 6 ratio too.

One has to take into consideration the political environment if one wishes to foster permaculture.

Just take the concept of free ranging chickens or ducks. If one assumes that the definition of free range is that the animal is allowed to roam free beyond the confines of the owners plot. In a tranquil political environment and the creature is not disruptive its probably not a problem. But take a Rwanda or Zimbabwe environment and that creature is probably going to free range themselves right into someone else's pot!

I hate to even bring up politics as that is not the purpose of this board. Sadly though, plights of the poor are a lot of times generated by either government inaction or government action on the wrong goals. Not exclusively of course but significantly enough that many poor without the interference, through their own efforts could rise above poverty.

Returning to AP as the engine to prosperity. I have to say I have seen a lot of ingenuity on this board to mitigate costs of systems. Stellar in fact. The concepts are easy enough to grasp so teaching the method can be solved. AP can be a method to self reliance. But the biggest hurdle I see for AP is capital costs. It is not cheap. If you live in a village, you are thirty and in your entire life you have only seen 3 British one pound notes, let alone possessed them. Then being informed that a pump alone is 25 pounds sounds like a pipe dream.

So if one wishes to pursue this with purpose it requires thinking like the technology of meso-Americans. Can serviceable pumps be made out of local materials successfully? What can be used to build tanks if cement is not available? How to test the water without a test kit? Assume plastics are unobtainable, etc.

More I think of it at that level, wicking beds sound more feasible.

Don't mean to sound negative.

Yes, definitely when you start talking about locations with no electricity and minimal access to manufactured goods, then there are definitely other methods that become more appropriate.

I think some form of wicking beds is a good idea.

Humanure composting becomes really important on several fronts. 1-conserve water, 2-build soil nutrition, 3-sanitation (this may be the most important reason.)

Continuing this from the Vermiponics thread ( good idea TCL )....

On this one, I have to agree with Chappo. I've worked extensively through remote areas in NW China, Indonesia and Fiji and have eaten a great deal of meals squatting on a floor eating rice and fish with my fingers.

Most of these people were surviving on less than $1 a day, so yes, they could not buy meat outside of bartering, but as Chappo says, they all want it and they all spend a significant amount of effort in sourcing and growing it. Despite being extremely poor, they all do enjoy their food and the women spent a significant amount of time preparing it in order that they could all enjoy it. Many of the great cuisines around the world originally come from peasant cultures which indicates that those poor people also did not just want to survive - they wanted to live a life. They don't want to just get through every day survive on beans and rice !

What the affluent west has distorted is the the ratio of meat to the other foods.

You describe growing rice and beans as a more efficient use of their time. In my experience it is blatantly not what they want and there is no pride or satisfaction in just doing what is the most efficient. If they can't get that out of it, it will never fly. Just because the numbers work on paper is highly irrelevent compared to what the people actually want.

AHH squatting on the rattan mat , rice in fingers , select small piece of fish , dip into spicey sauce eat , follow with green vegies:) It is almost second nature for me to eat that way now.
Yep Chillidude ,, one of the fastest growing cuisines in Aus is Thai food ,, everywhere I look another Thai restaurant is opening. Funny thing is people actually think its healthy??? Don't tell them how much salt and sugar is in those meals.
The "Thai" style of food indeed originates from being poor ,, the quality of product they could get was low , so they compensate by having a lot , a REAL lot, of spice , sugar and salt in the dipping sauces etc.\
I just couldn't imagine a meal shared with my poor relatives that did not include either catfish or tilapia , just NEVER seen that happen. I admit the suckling pork etc is kept for special occasions but fish is seen as a BASIC.

Oh but the Thai sweet n spicy sauce is sooooooooo good on catfish and tilapia. Very high in sugar but really good.

I'm eating steamed chicken wrapped in lettuce leaves with several herbs ,, dipping into my favourite Thai sauce ,, Tamarind sauce ,, YUMMMMMM
Yep TC , Thai food is extra yummy ,, I try and ignore the sugar and salt issues.
Remember the Thai food you get is probably very less spicy than real Thai ,, real Thai food has chilli so hot you will cry:)

Got hooked on Thai fare when I lived in Miami Springs oh so many years ago. A little Mom & Pop restraunt was excellent. Chappo, they made their own sauces and yes they made you cry. Would die for a good one here in Dallas.

Grab yourself a Thai wife:)
Background checks and cooking tests needed , my Thai wife couldn't bl**dy well cook , first year of marriage was constant telephone calls back to Mum for "how to do".

That would be one too many in my parts!

A Thai girlfriend then?? Convince the Mrs of the benefits , Thai food , help around the house etc etc

HI,
ask tiger how much help an extra girl (woman) around is!!!!!!!!!!

Peter

Tiger is half Thai ,, he was merely following the customs of that part of his ancestry
It is considered "the norm" to have at least one "Mia noi" (little wife) in Thai culture , and the more successfull you are the more Mia Noi's you are expected to have.

Funny how all of Tiger's "Mia Noi's"... were too stupid to think that they might impact on his family life and marriage... or didn't realise that he was married...

Yet seem smart enough to prostitute themselves on every TV chat show and tabloid mag... for a healthy appearance fee of course...

And not a single questioning word about THEIR morality has ever been whispered... aint sexual equality a grand thing....