Cyara's dream CHIFT PIST system

TCLynx

Cyara wrote:

Keeping rabbits colony style does need space but can be done a little with an outside run on slab for ease of cleaning... I wouldn't keep them in the same place day on day on grass... coccidiosis built up needs to be prevented and a general swill down with chlorine I was told will keep things hygenic... probably bleach too.... I would prefer that cos cholorine has certain health problems attached to it. The caged animals definitely need a rest plate for sore hocks... they have no padding underneath their feet... and I have noticed that a lot of people forget or don't know this. Just a piece of wood in the cage will do it.

You mention washing down with chlorine but then say you would prefer bleach instead because of health problems associated with chlorine. Most bleach I know of that is meant for cleaning/disinfection is chlorine bleach so you wouldn't be protecting yourself from the chlorine by using bleach. Bummer really since chlorine is pretty darn toxic to us and the environment. However, probably far easier to use than fire to sterilize a space.

Cyara

TCLynx wrote:

Cyara wrote:

Keeping rabbits colony style does need space but can be done a little with an outside run on slab for ease of cleaning... I wouldn't keep them in the same place day on day on grass... coccidiosis built up needs to be prevented and a general swill down with chlorine I was told will keep things hygenic... probably bleach too.... I would prefer that cos cholorine has certain health problems attached to it. The caged animals definitely need a rest plate for sore hocks... they have no padding underneath their feet... and I have noticed that a lot of people forget or don't know this. Just a piece of wood in the cage will do it.

You mention washing down with chlorine but then say you would prefer bleach instead because of health problems associated with chlorine. Most bleach I know of that is meant for cleaning/disinfection is chlorine bleach so you wouldn't be protecting yourself from the chlorine by using bleach. Bummer really since chlorine is pretty darn toxic to us and the environment. However, probably far easier to use than fire to sterilize a space.

That's interesting TC. Maybe the bleach we have here is different.... never heard this before and big into health. Bleach has even been said to be extremely safe to drink. I'll see what I can find out.

RupertofOZ

Cyara wrote:

That's interesting TC. Maybe the bleach we have here is different.... never heard this before and big into health. Bleach has even been said to be extremely safe to drink. I'll see what I can find out.

All "bleachs" are chemical... either chloride or peroxide.... I'd suggest that you don't try drinking them.... :lol:

Cyara

Found this.... but not sure I am any the wiser!

Quote:

The two types of household bleach are chlorine bleach and peroxide bleach. Peroxide bleach was introduced in the 1950s. Though it helps to remove stains, especially in higher wash temperatures, it will not bleach most colored materials and does not weaken fabrics, as does sodium hypochlorite bleach. Peroxide bleach does not disinfect and is commonly added to laundry detergents which are advertised as color-safe. It also has a longer shelf life than chlorine bleach. Peroxide bleach is more commonly used in Europe, where washing machines are manufactured with inner heating coils that can raise the water temperature to the boiling point.

The more common form of household bleach in the U.S. is chlorine bleach. It is most effective in removing stains and disinfecting fabrics. Chlorine bleach is cheap to manufacture and effective in both warm and hot wash temperatures. However, it has strong chemical properties which can weaken textile fibers.

The disinfecting properties of chlorine bleach can also be useful outside the laundry. Chlorine bleach disinfects drinking water where groundwater contamination has occurred, as it is a powerful germicide. It was first used to sanitize drinking water in New York City's Croton Reservoir in 1895, and is approved by the government for sanitizing equipment in the food industry. In recent years, bleach has been promoted by community health activists as a low-cost method of disinfecting the needles of intravenous drug users.

http://www.enotes.com/how-products-encyclopedia/bleach

About pure chlorine....

Quote:

The pure chemical element has the physical form of a diatomic green gas. The name chlorine is derived from chloros, meaning green, referring to the color of the gas. Chlorine gas is two and one half times as heavy as air, has an intensely disagreeable suffocating odor, and is exceedingly poisonous. In its liquid and solid form it is a powerful oxidizing, bleaching, and disinfecting agent. ....Chlorine is an important chemical in water purification, in disinfectants, in bleach and in mustard gas......Chlorine is also used widely in the manufacture of many products and items directly or indirectly, i.e. in paper product production, antiseptic, dyestuffs, food, insecticides, paints, petroleum products, plastics, medicines, textiles, solvents, and many other consumer products. It is used to kill bacteria and other microbes from drinking water supplies.....In nature it is only found combined with other elements chiefly sodium in the form of common salt (NaCl), but also in carnallite, and sylvite. Chlorides make up much of the salt dissolved in the earth's oceans: about 1.9 % of the mass of seawater is chloride ions.....Breathing small amounts of chlorine for short periods of time adversely affects the human respiratory system. Effects differ from coughing and chest pain, to water retention in the lungs. Chlorine irritates the skin, the eyes, and the respiratory system. These effects are not likely to occur at levels of chlorine that are normally found in the environment.............Chlorine causes environmental harm at low levels. Chlorine is especially harmful to organisms living in water and in soil..........

and so on....
http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/elements/cl.htm

RupertofOZ

Cyara wrote:

Chlorine is especially harmful to organisms living in water and in soil..........

A point often forgotten by those that clean their filters... (and to some extent growbeds)... with tap water....

Chlorine can effectively wipe out the bio-filtration bacteria....

Cyara

RupertofOZ wrote:

All "bleachs" are chemical... either chloride or peroxide.... I'd suggest that you don't try drinking them.... :lol:

Who to believe.... is standard practice the world over for water purification.

Quote:

Purifying by adding liquid chlorine bleach
#

If boiling is not possible, treat water by adding liquid household bleach, such as Clorox or Purex. Household bleach is typically between 5 percent and 6 percent chlorine. Avoid using bleaches that contain perfumes, dyes and other additives. Be sure to read the label.
#

Place the water (filtered, if necessary) in a clean container. Add the amount of bleach according to the table below.
#

Mix thoroughly and allow to stand for at least 30 minutes before using (60 minutes if the water is cloudy or very cold)

http://www.doh.wa.gov/phepr/handbook/purify.htm

RupertofOZ

Diluted doses... can be used to "purify" water.... and is commonly used.... within limits...

Drinking straight "chlorine" (or peroxide)... is another matter....

There are different grades/strengths of "bleach"... including hospital/industrial grades... with much higher percentage concentration... and if you read the bottles (as per some of your refeences).... and known to be extremely unsafe...

Cyara

RupertofOZ wrote:

Cyara wrote:

Chlorine is especially harmful to organisms living in water and in soil..........

A point often forgotten by those that clean their filters... (and to some extent growbeds)... with tap water....

Chlorine can effectively wipe out the bio-filtration bacteria....

It just needs to stand long enough.... 24 hours..... The chlorine gas in the water will dissipate during this time..... I always did this before topping up fish tanks when I lived in the city. It is deadly to fish too. A holding tank is all that is needed... or expensive additives can do the job.

RupertofOZ

Yep... sunlight and a bubbler... deals with it... as has often been quoted through out the forum...

Cyara

RupertofOZ wrote:

Drinking straight "chlorine" (or peroxide)... is another matter....

There are different grades/strengths of "bleach"... including hospital/industrial grades... with much higher percentage concentration... and if you read the bottles (as per some of your refeences).... and known to be extremely unsafe...

Household bleach ... at 5 to 6 percent chlorine... was what was under discussion.

All things told... I think cleaning with chlorine bleach and then leaving the area for the chlorine to dissipate before allowing the rabbits back into the run would be best management policy. 24 hours.

I learned something... didn't know chlorine was used to make the kind that disinfects.

RupertofOZ

Indeed... and they're 5-6%... whereas chlorination of drinking water is typically <1%...

Which was the point I was making in the (entire) post... :wink:

At low levels... it might be safe to drink... although there is discussion as to whether or not this is actually the case...

Cyara

RupertofOZ wrote:

All "bleachs" are chemical... either chloride or peroxide.... I'd suggest that you don't try drinking them.... :lol:

And to think you were agreeing with me the entire time!

Been an interesting discussion anyway.

Unicorn

Hydrogen Peroxide is used as a water treatment for drinking water tanks and hydroponics up here but pretty sure it would kill the biofilter

BatonRouge Bill

[quote="Cyara"
What are you "compost boxes" that you are planting your potatoes in, BRB? Like a stacked tower with compost instead of soil? I also want to grow my own grains for feed.
[/quote]
I like the no dig stacked tower idea but will used mixed soil and compost. The compost boxes are made form old 1x6x6 dog eared fence boards and are 3'x6'x 2 boards high. I will go up using the stacked tower method that people seem to like maybe 3' tall then let the plant green out.
The quail are doing fine. I kept around 2 dozen each white and brown. I get the occaisional egg from the browns but expect them to start laying in the spring. My brothers and I ate a dozen of them at the deercamp buffalo style. mmmm!
I don't know how the pellets will keep thru winter. My grass only stops growing in winter for about 1-1/2-2 months so I think I can keep the pellets fresh and possibly retain as much nutrients as possible. I only had one rabbit have probem with sore hocks as he couldn't get a doe to submit and kept thumping his feed hard on the wire. Keeping rabbits on cement also helps keep their nails in check, have to clip them on wire. Does also have 1/4" wire in nest boxes and plywood top they rest on. Pretty much keep nest boxes in their cages entire time breeding season. Never had a problem with coccidiosis, although did have a few outbreaks of ear mites. Hard to get rid of if not caught early, just keeps reoccuring. Just like fish a quarenteen is good prevention.
Reason I tried chicken scratch is because my drain to the biofilter drains from the top and the floating gamefish feed I'm using ends up in the biofilter rather quickly. The scratch sinks and it is smaller than the pellets which only the larger fish can eat.
I'm not going to fool with the hides the BSF larva can have them. And yes the New Zealands don't like to be fooled with like many other breeds the the Flemish Giants are quite gentle and make great indoor pets. They are larger than the New Zealands but take a couple weeks longer to grow out. The new Zealands are 2/3 adult size in 6 weeks and have much larger litters. If crossed should be able to get growout in 7 weeks and a slightly larger animal. Also more gentle. Handling the does for breeding is the part they don't like. After you put her with the buck the first time she doesn't want to go back and resists. But you should put her with him 3 times for an hour each in a day of breeding to get your kit numbers up. I also had some black and white dutch show rabbits. Smaller and more compact/rounder, shorter spine, but much more meaty along the spine than the NewZealands. Like a little back strap. GReat batter fried Bunny!

Cyara

Unicorn wrote:

Hydrogen Peroxide is used as a water treatment for drinking water tanks and hydroponics up here but pretty sure it would kill the biofilter

I don't know. Maybe not. In the one article I posted it said that Peroxide Bleach will not disinfect. It is the sodium hypochlorite bleach that does. Although the chlorine in household bleach is really low.... I looked at ours locally... only 3.5%.... I wouldn't bring it near an AP system... but diluted for water drinking purification it has been used all over for a long time. But Hydrogen Peroxide is touted to be good for plants and generally beneficial to life.... so who knows.

Found this interesting....

Quote:

It is this hydrogen peroxide in rainwater that makes it so much more effective than tap water when given to plants. With the increased levels of atmospheric pollution, however, greater amounts of H202 react with air-borne toxins and never reach the ground. To compensate for this, many farmers have been increasing crop yields by spraying them with diluted hydrogen peroxide (5 to 16 ounces of 35% mixed with 20 gallons of water per acre). You can achieve the same beneficial effect with your house plants by adding 1 ounce of 3% hydrogen peroxide (or 16 drops of 35% solution) to every quart of water you give your plants. (It can also be made into an excellent safe insecticide. Simply spray your plants with 8 ounces of 3% peroxide mixed with 8 ounces of white sugar and one gallon of water.)

http://educate-yourself.org/cancer/bene ... ul03.shtml So I can understand why it would be used in Hydroponics.

I know that Hydrogen Peroxide has many health benefits. Ingesting it was highly recommended by Dr Chris Barnard... the guy over here who did the first ever heart transplant.... he is also big into longevity and believed Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2) to aid in this. It's the extra oxygen that he wants. Remove the extra Oxygen and you are left with H2O... water. A pretty stable and harmless compound.

Backyard Aquaponics A place to discuss aquaponics

Cyara's dream CHIFT PIST system

Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics