Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

I have posted this on my system thread but realised it is more appropriate here.
Just got my Barra (30x 120mm) on Tuesday arvo (just in time for a cold snap)
FT temps have been fluctuating 20 to 23 until yesterday. I put 2x 300W heaters in and have the FT covered with an off cut from my pool blanket. This morning it was 22 after a cold wet night so I hope things will be ok. I am worried I may have PH shocked them!
I checked the alkalinity yesterday and it was about 0 to 40 and PH about 6.2.
I put about 50 gms of NaHCo3 which I thought would get it up about 30ppm (1000L FT) ie get it upto 120 ppm in stages while checking PH.
I checked this morning and Alkalinity is about 40 to 80 as I expected but PH has gone up to 7.2. ie a Full PH unit!
What to do? Do I add some acid to drop the PH a bit or leave it and hope for the best.
I asked Tony at Golden ponds what the PH was in the water they came from and he couldnt tell me he said it was probably 6.5 to 7.0.
I had one floater yesterday (86 gms and 180mm) before the PH adjustment, I am assuming it was from cold the previous night.
No more floaters this morning.
Also should I hit them with another 2 PPT salt (I gave them 1 PPT the day after I put them in the FT)
I figure I have stressed them that much if they do survive they will get sick.
I have not tried to feed them since the second day, I gave them a few pellets and they showed no signs of eating them.
Water temp this afternoon is 24c ambient is 21c
This is worse than being a father for the first time !!!!

IMHO, the best thing to do now is, nothing.

Making further rapid changes to pH, salinity, temperature or anything else is just going to add to the stress of the already stressed fish. I'd be leaving the fish and the water alone for a few days; don't feed the fish, don't make any further changes, and where possible, don't cover/uncover the fish tank (if you need access to the water for testing, take it from somewhere else in your system; do an occasional check for floaters). Try to keep everything as constant as possible for as long as possible until things settle down; plenty of air and pumping, of course.

From my experiences so far, just about everything in AP has a tendency to drop pH and systems will eventually find their own balance if given sufficient time and minimal interference. If (for whatever reason) you consider this natural balance pH too low add a pH buffer to the system which will gradually change the pH by working continuously against the acidity. You can consider shell grits etc for this purpose. Some people's systems and fish are happy at pH below 6, some are above 8; each system is different.

As you saw in my small system, I have a small amounts of fine, medium and coarse crushed sea shells. If these weren't there, my fish-populated system would have a natural balance pH of about 6.5; with just the shells and no fish the pH would be about 7.5-8.0 but when both are "working" the pH stays at about 7.0. The fines are the quick responders to sudden increases in acidity, the larger pieces dissolve more slowly and hence buffer the acidity. The lower the pH, the faster the shells dissolve. I guess my system would survive without them, but since they are there now, they can stay. (Small amounts of calcium is allegedly good for the fish too.)

I know the desire to "fiddle" and "tinker" is almost unbearable at times, but failing to resist these urges will just lead to more changes and this will make the fish even unhappier.

As for adding more salt, IF you feel you really NEED to do something then you could increase the salinity to 3ppt (the popular wisdom being that 1ppt is a general tonic and 3ppt being more medicinal?) but I would do it slowly, adding small amounts of well dissolved salt at regular intervals (maybe 250g each 6 hours or so, for two days). If you can, don't add directly into the FT, but add it somewhere else in the system to avoid scaring the fish by uncovering the tank and splashing around.

I guess the major learning point from this episode is to have everything in place before adding fish? Whenever possible, before adding fish to water or water to fish (topping up tanks etc) I try to make sure the "basics" between the water sources are close i.e. temperature, salinity and pH. I have never measured alkalinity.

Plants don't like sudden changes either, so you have to do just about everything in AP slowly and gently.



Scott

P.S. If you have strawberries in your system, you might want to consider isolating them for the moment; mine don't like salt. 1ppt is OK but 3ppt nearly killed them (and that was added over three days!)

Thanks Scott
I think I will Leave them alone for a few days, then once they are ready to start taking some feed I will consider salt and some shell grit etc.
I did not mention the chemisty before apart from PH but ammonia is 0.75, Trites 0.5, Trates are 15
Thanks again.
Devo

I love chemistry... and experiments... and I'm glad you do as well....

Now... please find your laboratory... to continue your experiments...

And leave your fish tank alone.... it's not a giant test tube...

Rupe I am new to AP and trying to do the best I can at producing food sustainably, and in doing so not cause unnecessary pain and suffering to the fish!! That's why I joined this forum to learn from people who know more about it.
Bunson's response was of considerable help!
Yours strikes me as simply being smart a arsed put down.
You obviously realise I live in WA and I am not a potential customer.
If you can make a constructive comment with specific advice I would be glad to here it.
Otherwise why not be like the other 36 people that viewed my post and say nothing at all.

G'day Devo,

I was a tinkerer of all FT levels by nature, i have come to realise (the hard way) that less is best.

a few points that you may or may not have already read.

lower PH makes ammonia less toxic

lower PH makes bacteria multiply slower (unless this has been debunked in the last 12 months)

ANY change stresses fish

so to bundle all that up into what i think about your situation...............

Dont stress about what you've already done, use the shell grit for a slow but rock solid rise to 7's if u want.

at the end of the day less is more unless you're at Critical low or high levels.

i haven't check PH in my FT for 18 to 24 months and grown out two batches of trout.

most of all have fun

Devo, my post was perhaps a little curt... but not intended as a direct personal put down of yourself... and apologies if it appeared that way...

In the past, people, especially those new to aquaponics... would ask a question as to how to address a problem... and responses would be forthcoming accordingly...

And the same advice as to how to address various issues... including ph management, and the products/compounds with which to do so, and have been proven safe to use... consistantly posted and repeated...

Lately, there just seems to have been almost a wave of people that want to approach aquaponics as though it's some sort of chemical experiment... or hydroponics operation...

Or arrived with pre-conceived notions.... or begin by offering solutions to their own problems... and/or dismissing advice....I'm just a little jaded by it... and the un-neccessary fish kills over the last 12 months that have resulted accordingly...

Again, apologies, and I'll take a deep breathe and be more considered in my posts in the future...

As to your suggestion that your location, or potential as a client... might have had anything to do with my post...

I can assure you that neither ever crossed my mind... and there wasn't any such motivation or emotional energy attached as such...

To summarize... as Steve and Bunson... and myself (badly and obscurly) said above...

Resist the temptation to tinker too much... especially at the start...

Sorry Devo, not a good couple of days... and as I said in my reply... I've just been getting the shits lately with the way people, especially those who are new... have been approaching things... and seemingly ignoring advice, or not bothering to either read past posts, or ask advice...

I'll pull my head in... despite how it came across... the rant was more a "generic" smart arse comment... rather than something specifically directed at you...

And I'm sorry if it caused offence...

Post above was actually supposed to be a PM devo... probably shows where my head is... off to bed I think...

Relax big breath. Leaving the fish alone as much as possible now will be the best thing. I get the impression that Barra are easily stressed by attention and activity around the tank.

Salt up to 3 ppt would be fine but 1 ppt is likely good enough for the moment.

Perhaps the pH jump was a bit more than recommended but not much you can do about it now so just avoid stressing them any more. Adjusting pH is difficult to do slowly so now that it is back to a good level, add some sort of long term slow acting buffer material like shell grit to help keep things from dropping or swinging too much in the future.

Relax, this is supposed to be fun.

And I will assure you that most comments that come off a bit abrupt here are really not meant to be rude or nasty. Most people here are actually rather friendly and if something does seem a bit less than constructive, see if perhaps the person could maybe have been joking a bit with you. Unfortunately, the written word doesn't work as well for joking around as does in person talk. Ah well, we do our best.

Good Luck with the new Fish.

Thanks to all for the advice.
I probably should have trawled through past posts and will do that in future.
I will look at getting some shell grit into the beds and leaving them alone for a few more days.
No hard feelings Rupe, I was just a bit stressed and toey (like my fish)

Devo,
I think Rupe was a bit stressed too. If you read the last several pages of his system thread you will know why. Even the best of us can have HSM situations.