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PostPosted: Sep 13th, '09, 09:17 
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Potassium Sulphate (K2SO4)
Potassium Sulphate (MgSO4) --> the heck? Must be a typo in their ad?
Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) - I googled this and its apparently used for bombs. You need a permit to buy it? If so, then I doubt this one will be it...
Mono Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4)


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PostPosted: Sep 13th, '09, 16:22 
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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MgSO4 - Magnesium sulphate is what you want - but I think mineral rock dust does the job of adding everything quite well.


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PostPosted: Sep 13th, '09, 21:47 
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Outbackozzie wrote:
MgSO4 - Magnesium sulphate is what you want - but I think mineral rock dust does the job of adding everything quite well.



Any possible layman's explanation as to how magnesium sulphate acts as a potassium supplement?


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PostPosted: Sep 13th, '09, 22:05 
:headbang: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sep 13th, '09, 22:19 
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:oops:


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PostPosted: Sep 13th, '09, 22:52 
Some have used muriate of potash... Potassium Chloride...

Personally I use Potassium BiCarbonate.... gives me a strong buffer as well as the Potassium boost... mind you I run my system around pH 6.4.... and it often drops < 6.0 ...


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PostPosted: Sep 13th, '09, 22:58 
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Okay then -- so in short all these options are safe and compatible for AP ?


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PostPosted: Sep 13th, '09, 23:44 
Yes and no... depends on your system pH... what you add, when and why??

What are you trying to acheive???


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PostPosted: Sep 14th, '09, 00:13 
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By any chance, do you use API's Freshwater testing kit? Because I'm having trouble with what reading to accept for my pH readings. The color closely matches 8.0 on the high-range test but its not quite dark enough.

Anyways, I'm simply in the learning process of finding out what to buy and seeing if the products are compatible with AP. If I gotta pH down in the future then I'll be using phosphoric acid, and thus I'm assuming I might want to stay away from the Mono Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It was probably a bad idea to plant my seedlings during the fishless cycling... I noticed some very slight yellowing at the tip of one of my baby leaves. I think you saw my other thread in the plant section.


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PostPosted: Sep 14th, '09, 09:46 
Yes, most of us use the API Master Test Kit...

If your colour is quite "dark enough".... it probably means that your pH isn't 8.0... but more like 7.8... :roll:

Where, and why did you suddenly come up with adding Mono Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4).... and/or pH down....

Aquaponics is all about replicating a balanced aquatic eco-system....

STOP treating it as a chemical laboratory.... just put all such thoughts out of your mind...

Build your system, let it cycle... and let it acheive its balance over time...

Any slight deficiencies can be corrected when/if they occur....

LEAVE IT ALONE.....


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PostPosted: Sep 14th, '09, 09:58 
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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+1 for Rupe
The system consists of water, fish, plants, fish food, a pump or 2 and some growbed media.
We are trying hard as possible to make this a creek like environment, why add anything other than fish food :roll:


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PostPosted: Sep 14th, '09, 10:25 
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I wouldn't be adding phosphoric acid, not that i don't think that it won't be safe for AP more coz i know how easy it is to burn yourself with that stuff.
The Mono Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4) will make your pH go up, as will any of the ones with sulphate (SO4) as they will bond with other stuff in there and create an acid.
And phosphate isn't all that good for fish either. Out of a choice of those to keep the pH the same i'd go with muriate of potash, but dissolve it first as they generally have a coating which doesn't dissolve.
I'm guilty of adding varios trace elements to my system as well, but i work in a lab and can get my water analysed for pretty much any element, but its better to add a complete trace element product IMO, its just too hard to get it right otherwise.

Cheers
Jono


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PostPosted: Sep 29th, '09, 05:00 
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Ok I bought potassium nitrate

Total N: 12%
Soluble Potash (K2O): 44%

...now how do I find out how much to dilute and then how much to pour into my tank?

I also bought a nutrient pack (chelated trace elements and "Oligo-element chelate" --whatever that means...) containing:

Iron 7%
Manganese 2%
Zinc 0.4%
Copper .1%
Boron 1.3%
and Molybedium 0.06%

Not sure if I can use it with AP but I bought it anyways since it cost less than a foot long sandwhich. I might be able to use it during the fishless cycling as my plants are probably starved of nutrients. I just have no clue how to dose.


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PostPosted: Sep 29th, '09, 07:43 
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Confuzedd wrote:
Ok I bought potassium nitrate

Total N: 12%
Soluble Potash (K2O): 44%

...now how do I find out how much to dilute and then how much to pour into my tank?

I also bought a nutrient pack (chelated trace elements and "Oligo-element chelate" --whatever that means...) containing:

Iron 7%
Manganese 2%
Zinc 0.4%
Copper .1%
Boron 1.3%
and Molybedium 0.06%

Not sure if I can use it with AP but I bought it anyways since it cost less than a foot long sandwhich. I might be able to use it during the fishless cycling as my plants are probably starved of nutrients. I just have no clue how to dose.


I don't think I'd use it. See you don't really want to be adding any nitrogen other than the ammonia you use for cycling or the fish feed. The cycling process and bacteria are what supplies your system with nitrate, you don't really want to overdose your system with nitrate before hand.
I would not recommend dosing with anything extra during fishless cycling (other than whatever you use for the ammonia source) unless the plants show a deficiency, show some pictures of the plants and describe what's going on (as well as water test results) and some one can probably recommend an appropriate supplement.

for potassium.
*Seasol or Maxicrop are good choices (they are seaweed extracts, be sure to choose the ones without added nitrogen like fish meal) They provide not only potassium but also many trace elements in amounts that are safe for fish when used reasonably, for a small system measure by the spoonful.)
*If you can't find Maxicrop or seasol, go for murate of potash (potassium chloride) probably best putting a small spoonful under the water inlet to the grow bed and letting it dissolve there rather than in the fish tank.
*If your pH is low, you can use potassium bicarbonate, can be gotten from wine making/brewing shops.

Iron is another common deficiency but it is more closely tied to pH, if the pH is too high, the plants will be deficient in Iron. Chelated Iron is the best choice but I have used Iron Sulfate when I couldn't find the good stuff.

Seasalt can provide many trace elements as well and can be a good choice for use when salting a system to reduce fish stress.

For pH buffering, many of us use crushed oyster shells like they sell for chickens. This can help keep pH from dropping too low but will not help bring pH down. In my experience, if the pH does not come down on it's own naturally, adding acids isn't going to help much, it will only bounce your pH around until what ever is buffering the system too high dissolves. Also, though we generally only pay attention to the nitrates, fish food and fish waste has plenty of phosphates in it so you don't need to supplement that for the plants in a system with fish or in a Pee ponic system either.

Relax a little bit. No need to panic over anything until fish start gasping at the surface, then get the straw and start blowing bubbles. :wink:


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PostPosted: Sep 29th, '09, 09:32 
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Hey TcLynx

TCLynx wrote:

I don't think I'd use it. See you don't really want to be adding any nitrogen other than the ammonia you use for cycling or the fish feed. The cycling process and bacteria are what supplies your system with nitrate, you don't really want to overdose your system with nitrate before hand.
I would not recommend dosing with anything extra during fishless cycling (other than whatever you use for the ammonia source) unless the plants show a deficiency, show some pictures of the plants


Yeah, this is the sucky part: I attached some pics. 2 of the oldest set of leaves have yellowed. As for the stuff I bought, when you say "Not use it", is it because of the potential nitrate poisoning, or the danger to the fish? Because if its the compatibility problem with the fish, the nutrient pack I bought has a label that says "Popular with aquatic and hydroponic hobbyists" -- unless I'm getting pure aquatic gardening (if there is such thing) with aquariums :oops: ... no clue.

If the brighter side turns out for me (the aquatic part), then I pretty much just need to calibrate my own solution mixture so my dosing keeps my nitrates at safe levels. If I've really just wasted my money, then I'll have to do the banana burying trick for my potassium.

Quote:
and describe what's going on (as well as water test results) and some one can probably recommend an appropriate supplement.


I'm still cycling, nitrate was at 20+ ppm tested a few hours ago. I recently re-connected my fish tank 3-4 days ago too. So the volume of total ammonia that had to be processed was increased. The system is currently consuming 1.5 ppm of ammonia diluted in 38 gallons of water in 24 hours. Not too sure how well the nitrite eating bacteria are doing.

I thought nitrates could tolerate "infinite" amount of nitrates as they only take up what they need?

Quote:
Iron is another common deficiency but it is more closely tied to pH, if the pH is too high, the plants will be deficient in Iron. Chelated Iron is the best choice but I have used Iron Sulfate when I couldn't find the good stuff.

What about those iron supplements sold at nutrition centers? Can they be used in AP?

Quote:
Seasalt can provide many trace elements as well and can be a good choice for use when salting a system to reduce fish stress.


I plan to keep my salts at 1.0 ppm at all times. I hope that's a decent level. I doubt I can keep this correct through. I don't have an EC meter.

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Relax a little bit.


I wish I could :D


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