Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

WSow ,, Rupe I have no doubt of your intellect but what you are saying makes NIL sense ,, lets take a good look at the stock market ..... not the last 1 year or 5 or 25 ,, lets take a REAL look

http://www.asx.com.au/products/pdf/shar ... ements.pdf



WE Did not sell shares for realestate ,, rather use share profit to pay the mortgages,,, in fdact a third house was sold to purchase more shares,,,You want the figures on that???? over 300% MORE profit from shares than that investment house

ALSO remember looking at the graph ,, it represents only share PRICE .....
Good shares return not only HUGE Capital gain but alkso some 4-8% a year "fully franked" ,, that means ALL TAXED already paid.
Yes , these wholesome , loving companies , especially the banks pay tax for you:)

So DIVIDEND of 4-8% TAx ALREADY paid ,, plus excellent Capital growth ,, welll no Rupe I can't work out if 4.5% is better ROFMAO.

Yes my family is very heavily invested in Bank shares ,, you call themn BLOOD SUCKERS ,,,well as a share-holder and part owner of those business's I take offence to that. They currently get their "product" at 4.5^ and sell at 6.5% ,, a 2% profit. MAY I perhaps ask the real cost price of goods sold by "Fresh by Nature" ?. I don't want to go down that track ,, it would embarass many companies.
What i would like to say is fresh by Nature and the BYAP shops are designed to make profit and employment ,, Banks are the same , they want to make a nice profit for their owners,,,,no person is FORCED to buy from any of those companies , choice is with the consumer.

MTAA is an industry fund Chappo, they actually were the best preforming last year only losing 1% MTAA own the Sydney airport and other major properties and rent them back to the Govt, so they will always loose less than the others, but 10% loss is still crap, they badly invested the rest
The thing that Pisses me is, Every Fund (Except the Low risk wing of MTAA +2%) made a loss, (My wife's industry fund (Education Dept, obviously no mathematicians in control) lost 6% so be interesting to see how her's goes this year), and my own fund predicted a loss of 10% so why the *frack* did they carry on investing, they should be made accountable, it would have been more exciting if they put the whole lot on Number 13 on the roulette wheel, then at least we would have hope for 1 minute of making a profit *sigh*
EDIT Sigh I said they are *sigh*

Hey chappo that meazly 2% you talk about is actually a 30% margin
... and considering the 'Money Factorers' make more money from their 'addon fees'
I still think it is gouging when the poorer masses get to pay for evrything,
and the fat guy gets to pay for nothing there is an imbalance...
However there are lots of oportunities out there to become the fat guy
...if you want then go drink
...if you want money go make it

Well if you didn't sell shares to fund the investment house... then you used dividends from the shares... with an average loan of $350,000+ ... and the average interest rates over the last 10-20 years... you'd be paying at least $1,000 - $1,500 per month... or $12,000 - $18,000 per annum ... just to fund repayments on the mortgage...

I figure to earn that much in dividends each year.... you'd need at least a share portfoli of about $500,000...

Most punters would be lucky to have anything more than a portfolio of $30,000...

So your dad has a $3 million share protfolio.... then super isn't really going to be a concern for him...


And that's what we were talking about... the average punter and his superannuation nest egg... which he can't draw upon to finance real estate or share investments...

For those lucky enough to have sufficient spare collatoral after paying their mortgage... to invest and grow a share portfolio... best of luck to them.. I'm not knocking the idea...

I merely suggested that superannuation funds could be gauranteed and have a gauranteed return in their own right... without the risk of share market fluctuations...

the reality is that those that have invested the bulk of any savings into superannuation share linked investment funds... have taken a major savaging in terms of their retirement nest egg...

and unlike other investments... haven't been able to "fold them" at the top of the market... and reap the rewards

And compound interest of 4-5% on an individuals suoper monies would go pretty close to matching the growth of stock market returns over a 25 year period... IMO

Yep... you get a 4 - 8% franked dividend... and the paper value of your shares has increased...

But you haven't made a profit until you sell your shares...

And HUGE capital gain.... well not really.... property has consistently returned better returns on investment, not only in the last ten years... but the last 20..

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/06/ ... 29467.html

And it all presumes that ALL of your shares perform consistently over the period of time...

A compund interest of 5% over 20 years... would see a $250,000 investment grow to $663,324.43... without any additional top up... a return of $413,324 on your initial investment


A 5% dividend return on an initial $250,000 investment over 20 years would result in $250,000 of dividend return on your investment over the same period...

Yes your "paper" value of your stock would have also grown.. and may have performed well over the last decade if you selected the right stocks... but they would also have lost at least 10% of value over the last year...


Which comes out on top.... ....

Property is still a consistant return on investment... but I say again ... for a "captured" investment such as superannuation... a safe gauranteed compound interest return each year would IMO be more in keeping with the principle intentions of the concept of superannuation...

Rupe ,, nice try ..... you leave out the important facts. .........., Tax artes and capital gain Vs income ,, but God bless
Ok better I juust shut up,,,Yes Rupe get everyone on the 4.5% ,, they choose , their choice ,, only going to mean the poor stay poor ,, up to them:)

Nah Chappo... I'm talking about the compulsory superannuation contributions... which are untouchable until retirement... people would still have a choice as to whether they topped up their super or invested in shares, real estate, a nigerian bank scheme etc... with any other monies...

And yep I didn't touch on "taxes" etc... becuase they change constantly...

And I don't know where you got the fixation of 4.5%... I think I might have said a fixed rate of 4-5%..as a "figure"...

And you consistantly ignore the positives of the suggestion.... a gauranteed return and growth of peoples superannuation... when they reach retirement age...

As opposed to a return that may, for example if you're were planning to retire early this year, have been savaged due to share fluctuations...

And the pool of funds, at a fixed rate, available for housing mortgages.... available even to those who may wish to buy an "investment" house...

The average person isn't going to have a surplus of funds sufficient to build a stock portfolio of sufficient size to garner "huge" dividend returns... or at least returns that greatly exceed those that their super could acheive over the same time span through compoud interest...

Yeah maybe, they can make a profit trading shares... if they have the right advice, pick the right stocks, and the right time to cash in any profit... etc... but they'll still pay capital gain on any profit surely??

And while they may be able to build a "property" portfolio... they'll only be able to do so... when the market is "booming" (unless they're cashed up in a down cycle)... by heavily mortgaging and/or negative gearing or renting the property.... if credit is available... and if they can service the interest rates... and if they've got a job...

I'm not suggesting that anyone shouldn't be able to do anything, even setting up their own superannuation investment scheme...

No worries Rupe ..... on some subjects I am so determined I am correc t that it is useless to discuss it ..... I once would have argued until i was blue in the face , now i realise if my mind is so determined about the correctness on a subject it ios better for me AND better for the forum that I just not discuss.
No hard feelings , I'm not even really saying you are wrong ,I'm just being aware that I could never agree.

Mate, if we all thought the same , all looked the same and all talked the same ..... it would be a very blinken boring world.

Cheers

... indeed Chappo... and I'd be bored witless... as I suspect would you...