Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Hi y'all,

We will be doing a small scale commercial trial here in southern NSW before too long spring/ early summer. We have purchased, but not yet received, friendlies commercial aquaponics package which we will study and then substantially modify to suit our situation and climate. I will reveal all I can about the system and decision making/selection processes without breaking the commercial in confidence of friendlies package. Yes, lots of photos too.

How small is a small trial? Not much bigger, maybe 50%, than Joels' system (earthbound) in WA. Only difference is we want to try growing fruiting plants in gravel beds, and incorporating these into the filtration system. If the gravel beds are not for filtration at least bacteria repositories and nitrate/nitrate conversion.

Why buy a commercial package from friendlies? Because they seem to be the only people supplying such info who are walking the talk. The UVI system, on which friendlies is based and the only other info supplier, has commercial potential, but at the end of the day is a research system. So rather than spend many thousand's of dollars reinventing the wheel, we chose to buy the plans ($A1,100) for a working wheel which we will then modify - a straight commercial input/output decision.

Already we know we face the following issues; large climate variability and temp swings, regulatory issues with fish farming in NSW, fish processing facilities, hoop houses for winter, and so on. May be simpler to move to the Atherton tablelands

Main advantage of remaining where we are is our existing client base and a large, affluent and educated market in Canberra only 20 minutes away. Another advantage is the price premium we receive for local and clean food.

Educated / Canberra ..... surely two words diametrically opposed??? unless we are secretly neutering the politicians?

The neutering of Pollies is called the Public Service

Anyway exciting stuff has happened, friendlies manuals and plans arrived in the PO Box today. Have had a quick look and I think you could assemble the manuals off the interweb, but it would take you many weeks to gather it into a coherent whole. The plans however are not easily replicable from interweb info.

BTW, having opened the sealed plans envelope, I can no longer get a refund if I was not satisfied with the package - condition of sale. A bit harsh given that it was the plans I wanted to evaluate, but that's life. That said, and at first glance, it seems the DIY plywood and fibreglass fish tanks, solids settling tanks, net filtration and degassing chambers made the investment worthwhile. Plans are included for using commercial plastic tanks if needed. On second glance the construction of the raft ponds is simple and will save big $$ too.

I suspect I will be building my own tanks as it means much greater flexibility and compactness (rectangular) of layout, and it will save many thousands of dollars. The trade off will be the time to build, but as an ex builder it won't be hard. All the plumbing and earth works will be a constant.

There is much use of untreated timbers in the plans, but since I have half the world's termites on farm, I'll be using something else for in ground applications.

I'll probably use formwork ply for the tanks as it is waterproof and once coated with fibreglass and resin should last forever. Ply is so easy to work with. Another feature of the ply is that it will offer slightly better thermal resistance than metal or concrete, or even the plastics. Not sure if there would be any advantage, but it will be easy to insulate flat sided structures too.

The friendlies commercial package also includes plans for their 'off grid' domestic raft system. This is a simple system that a couple could knock together over a weekend - OK so maybe a long weekend. But looks very doable.

All in all, happy with the purchase. Now just have to convince she-who-must-be-obeyed where to put the system - right next to the house.

Look forward to seeing your progress Mcfarm. Have you got any before photos???
We allll love photos!

OK, site selected - yes photos soon. But more importantly the type of system is now set. As we are more interested in vegetable production than fish, so we are choosing to run with an 'experimental' low fish number/density system. We like fish, really we do, but the market realities and expense of complying with the legislation is prohibitive at this stage. If we get enthused by the trial we will jump in boots and all and up the stocking densities and add filtration, extra blowers, etcetera, but caution is the better part of valour in business - the expense of 'food safe' processing facilities for fish requires big numbers.

Friendlies have had such a trial system running for 8 months without hassle at 5kg fish per raft (8'x4'). It is an evolution of their 'off grid family system'. Basically they are using the bacteria on all below water surfaces to do the filtering and conversion. To run this system the raft to fish ratio can greatly increased, or the fish numbers dropped.

Anyway it's the simplicity that appeals; basically a fish tank, raft beds, water pump and blower - no filtration
Being cautious I may add a some sort of cone filter for larger solids removal, but it appears that at low stocking densities this is not necessary.

Other than site selection, the materials selected so far have been:
the pump - reeflo hammerhead gold 240volt 187watt 15,000lph@2m head $700 + gst.
the blower - Sweetwater S21 - no price yet but an end of year special
the tank - 3.6m x 1.1m metal round swimming pool with a new food grade liner - to be ordered today will post a price when I have it.
36 rafts in 4 ponds, lined with a food grade LDPE, will be driven by the fish - probably silvers and eel tailed cats. And the rafts/system will run about 200kg fish without mechanical filtration - well we hope so
Total system volume approx. 45,000 litres.

Am currently sourcing the dow blue board for the rafts. This is not cheap as it appears we import the stuff from OS and it's light but bulky, so freight is a killer. Any Oz leads would be appreciated, particularly if local manufacturers.

The FT and raft ponds will be insulated. The fish tank wrapped with a mylar coated bubble wrap type and with poly styrene under and on top. The raft ponds will have foam sheet insulation under the liner for both floor and walls, the top being insulated by the rafts. All the pipes will be buried.

We'll monitor temps and see if this is enough for year round production of seasonal veggies. If it isn't we will then add a poly structure over the lot, so about 25m x 10m. We know this not big, but it is only for a trial. I strongly suspect I will start building the poly structure as soon as the system is up and running, may even start it first - such a structured, detailed and exacting plan we run

I guestimate that this trial system will end up costing $20,000 including the poly structure, but excluding labour. We shall see.

The rafts are proving to be one of the most expensive bits @$86.27 plus GST. So that's $3,105 for the raft's and I haven't started insulating the ponds.

Just had a brain wave (yes it hurt). Line the ponds with the aircell foil insulation before putting in the liner. It has pretty good insulating qualities, it's flexible so should just roll out and staple to the top plates, it'll help protect the liner from damage, and it's cheap - well cheaper

Just be a little wary of the stocking density figures McFarm.... they're running Tilpia, which have a ridiculous tolerance for DO and water quality parameters...

Secondly, you're not going to get Silver Perch or Eel-tailed catfish to market in under 15-18 months... at best....

What is the size of a raft?

From what I understand this is a uvi type system that they have some how made more energy efficient and cheaper to build. UVI uses many pumps because its designed to be constructed on a flat surface. The bio filtering is done not only with the surface of the tanks, but also the fact that the bacteria inhabit the water as long as there is not sunlight killing it off and with rafts the sun is pretty much shut out. Netting filters or pvc shaving in bag are real easy to pull out and clean. I would like to know if the friendlys system separates the heavy solids.. I think all commercial systems do.

A commercial sized system using gravel in lined berms/ponds and a switching valve like rupe may be selling would allow a MUCH cheaper large system. Its been done very successfully in the past starting in WW2 with hydroponics. OH! if you get container sized loads of expanded clay its only a little more than twice the price of gravel. My interest in these type of systems is the labor saving rafts vs the beds full of gravel.

Good luck! I look forward to watching this system being put together.

MF,
Just be aware that aircell insulation, because of it's flexible nature, may not provide much insulation effect when compressed by the mass of water pressing on it. Most insulation relies on being completely uncompressed so it can function properly. Just an observation, not a judgement! You might be better off using 6mm EPS sheets, built up to a reasonable thickenes (say 24 to 30mm) It won't compress as much because it has a closed cell structure and it relatively rigid in compression. It will be less expensive than Aircell as well.
Cheers IanK

My system has 50000ltrs of water with low stocking and I have over 5000ltrs of gb media plus swirl filters and ABF's. So it will be interesting to see how yours goes.
I'd keep the o2 high to get the bacteria to cover enough of the surfaces to keep the ammonia and nitrite low.

Yeah Rupes I know I'll be waiting a long time between fish meals. I may yet run two tanks and have trout in winter months.
I know Tilapia are tough and I'll be watching the water quality like a hawk. I grew up in the Pacific and as a kid would go fishing in the creeks. It was nothing to put a dozen Tilapia in a 10 litre bucket for an hour or two, then carry them home live. I know about the fines, but it is seriously tempting to acquire some Tilapia to play with - they are out there. Anyway I plan to have have capped pipes built into the trial system so I can introduce a solids settling and net filter if needs be, and the blower is way too big so DO should be fine - even for trout.

Thanks DanD, and the rafts are the standard 8' x 4' x 2" or our metric equivalent 2400 x 1200 x 50mm similar to your Dow Blue board insulation. Re the efficiencies, the UVI was originally a research system with the power bills being paid by the University, so the performance parameters were all about maximizing DO and flow rates. Power consumption was an after thought. Friendlies have one of the most expensive power tariffs in the world at 44c/Kw. I pay roughly a third of that at 16c/Kw. So friendlies have made big savings by paying close attention to all the performance characteristics of their electrical components AND how the mechanical components affect the performance of the whole system. Only common sense stuff really, like minimising height diffs and making all things flow smoothly without abrupt changes in direction etcetera.

Can't see how a gravel system would be much cheaper than the rafts. Two factors to consider; initial cost and operating costs. Given that the ponds and lining will be a similar cost with either system, the rafts add $87 per 870 litres of pond,so the hydroton would be 17.4 bags (say 17 bags) @ $30 a bag, so $510 or 6 times the price. For hydroton to equal the price of the rafts, the bags would need to sell at close to $5 a bag. Admittedly the hydroton won't snap when you lift the plants out for harvesting, and it provides greater crop flexibility, but it comes at a labour cost. The rafts will offer better thermal performance though offering insulation which protects higher thermal mass for a given volume.

The other thing I've considered is the ebb and flow systems usually have other mechanical devices to make em work. No matter how good the engineering, the fewer components, the less to go wrong. It doesn't get much simpler that a pump and a blower. I'm watching your large gravel beds with interest though.

Thanks Ian, I'd forgotten that in my brain snap. Although the stuff I'm thinking of is a bit like really tough bubble wrap. You can walk on it and not pop the bubbles (a lot of psi under my heel and 90kg weight), so it should be ok. But expanded polystyrene may be better and less $$ too.

Duff, your system thread one of the first ones I read when I join this forum. I was looking at larger systems and yours fitted the bill. The sweetwater S41 blower is about 4 times bigger than I need atm, but will do until the system is bedded down or is expanded. In the meantime it should keep the Do levels way up there. I think I need about 150 litres a minute when fully stocked and the S41 delivers 415 litres a minute - need to check my stocking density and consequent air delivery requirements though.

Tilapia are banned in all but WA... and that will probably change very soon, indeed there is a push to ban all chilids even for aquaria purposes...

Absolutely NO way you would DPI approval or licensing to import/stock/sell them...

And I think your Canberra winter would kill them anyway...

Looking at the friendlies family system with 8 rafts, 120 pounds of fish there will be from 150 to 200 pounds of veggies?

Taking the low number, thats 1.7 pounds of veggies per square foot of raft or growing area every month! If I had 1.7 pounds of produce for ever square foot of grow bed then my 400 square foot gravel grow bed should produce 680 pounds of veggies.. ..per month... ???


I'm having a hard time imagining that... Are raft systems that much more productive? Or is it the type of plant they grow, like basil and lettuce that they are talking about? If I could get those kinds of numbers I would never need to buy food at the store! And you get more with the commercial system?

I must suck at planting and growing.. My numbers are nowhere near that..

I also kinda disbelieve that each raft is really producing that much each month. Even lettuce usually takes about a month to reach a small harvest size. Then again. If one is planting already fairly well established seedlings into the rafts, then perhaps the rafts are getting to such a productive point but the seedling growing space or seedling cost is not being taken into account in these figures.

Regardless of the claims made by the sellers of systems, aquaponics systems do work - some better than others. The laws of nature/physics will be the ultimate limiting factors, and I can't see AP breaking those any time soon. Even in absolutely perfect conditions plants have a life cycle that still takes time to complete, an AP system in Hawaii maybe close to perfection - who knows? Anyway, I have no idea whether the claims are achievable, or not. That's why this thread is called a "trial", we're gonna suck it and see.

Commercial prudence means that before embarking on an AP venture, we take the claims of system sellers with a grain of salt, yet give them the benefit of doubt. In other words healthy scepticism rules. So in the absence of working commercial AP farms to inspect and verify such claims, what to do to satisfy precautionary principles? The next best thing is to conduct a small scale trial, and then extrapolate the numbers from the working example. The trick is to make the trial large enough to produce meaningful and stable figures, without going broke in the process, and to make it replicable. Hopefully that's what we're doing, and all will be revealed here to be dissected and discussed.

I can't see that either a gravel bed or raft will produce more or less plants, if the other parameters are the same. If growing areas are the same, and water temps, DO, pH, nutrient levels and availability, daylight length, etcetera are the same, then both systems should grow the same number of plants in the same time frame. The only variables I can see that are harder to quantify are: the nitrosomas and nitrobacter colonies composition and number in each system, and the effect of rootlet (and other areas) coating by fish waste solids - the anerobic areas solids produce will slow plant growth. For this reason I will trial the system with low fish densities and no filtration, but design in a filtration system and degas tank that can be added later if required. This will also give before and after figures to evaluate.

Was going to take and post some site photos yesterday, but we've been in a pea soup fog for over 36 hours. First time in well over ten years that a fog has not lifted during the day. The fog started at about 6pm Sunday, and it's still here 8am Tuesday.

It's the end of our financial year so I will be tidying up loose ends from the farms accounts for the next few weeks, but once this is done I plan to break ground in July