Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

I'm trying to do a smaller system,
and have a couple questions.
I keep a small reef as a hobby,have done freshwater,I am perusing a degree in Agriculture,
used to grow lots(70 species or so) of carnivorous plants for fun and overall I'm just have some questions.
Being 16,I can't spend a mint on a system but a couple 55 gallon food grade trash cans,
some bulkheads,a drill,a dozen 5 gallon buckets,some foam insulation and a utility maxijet is what I could use right?
Obviously the fish food,the talapia,test kits(I've got them),a method of cycling the tank and a few other obvious things...

So questions,unfortunately lots of them

What are the ideal water parameters of talipia ?
Would a 55 gallon container be able to keep them for awhile(I know they get big) ?
What are the ideal water parameters for lettuce and other basic veggies?
How much flow is typical in a normal system ?(5X per hour ?)
What is an ideal brand of fish food that is high quality,that zI can buy online ?
Can chlorine and chlormine be tolerated,if I let the water sit for a week?
What is the ideal amount of gallons for a smaller home system ?
What is used for biological filtration ?
If I used PH neutral porous gravel or large aquarium sponges,would the trapped detritus be bad or beneficial ?
Should a part of the system be made so that is collects all the detritus for collection ?
(is it to be removed or let it to decompose)
What is a good portable method of a raft growing system ?
(5 gallon buckets,drilled then plumbed with bulkheads ?? Is there a better way?)
What is the best medium to use to start lettuce and other raft system vegis ?
What is ideal for aeration ?
Having an average of 80F-85F shouldn't be a problem right ?

Don't worry, asking questions is a good thing. Reading this, it sounds like you already know a fair bit about fish keeping so you are probably ahead of the game on that knowledge and you probably know a bit about Aquarium plumbing as well.


70-90 F for temperature (I'm pretty sure they can survive even warmer for short periods but it probably isn't that good long term and they can, depending on the particular species as to how low, survive temperatures down below 60 F but they don't eat or grow much at all with water below 70 F.) So a water temp of 80-86 F would probably be perfect. Otherwise tilapia are really hardy and can survive less aeration that most other aquaculture fish though they will do better with good quality water and aeration. I'm not sure of their exact pH and hardness desires but they should do fine within the 6.5-8 pH range that most AP systems strive to stay within.


Sure a 55 gallon container could house them for a while (I've personally never really liked the blue barrel on it's side type fish tank because I have trouble seeing into them.) I've hooked up a long narrow pond liner and wood tank to my small barrel system to create a better fish tank.


Different veggies would like somewhat different water parameters but a pH around 7 seems to work for both and the veggies should survive with water temps that will work for tilapia though most veggies might prefer slightly lower temperatures. Veggies would of course like a lower pH while the fish and bio filter usually want to stay a little higher. The bio-filter action naturally wants to bring the pH down so buffering is usually needed and a stable pH is more important than getting the pH exactly right for any one plant since lettuce is happy at a higher pH than cucumbers. Once an AP system matures, most things can be grown even though the pH and nutrients are not exactly matched to each particular veggie the way they might be when growing just one crop in a Hydroponics system.


Actually, Most people are told to aim for 1X the Fish tank volume being filtered through the grow beds each hour as the minimum. Granted, this is with the Flood and drain media beds that most of us here on BYAP are used to designing for. If doing separate bio-filters and solids filters and then floating raft veggie spaces, it is a little harder for me to know what to tell you since that is not how my system works.


Sorry, I don't know the answer to this one. I can give you a link to the food I buy but it is really costly and I'm trying to find a good quality feed that doesn't cost to much but I have not found it around here. I've tried using cheaper feed I got elsewhere but I had water quality problems with it. I'm using the 36% protein pellets for both my Channel Catfish and Blue Tilapia
http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/1175/Dense-Culture-Feed/dense%20culture%20feed/0
Young Tilapia will be much better off with higher protein feed and I've used Flakes for them.


My understanding is that chlorine can be let air for some time and it will go away but the chlormine needs to be neutralized with a conditioner or filtered out. At least with a brand new system, chlormine will make it hard for a bio-filter to establish.
What do you do for aquariums? Read labels carefully though since Aquaponics systems are meant to produce food and many Aquarium products are not safe for food systems.


Uh, Bigger always bigger Where is the system to be located? If indoors with climate control, you might get away with a really small system but for outdoors 300 gallons is probably a really good size for stable temperatures in sub tropical climates. I don't know your climate very well and you mention using floating rafts so the system temps will probably naturally be a bit more stable anyway.


Most of us use flood and drain gravel beds as the solids and biological filters. For each 25 gallons of flood and drain gravel bed, perhaps as much as 6 lb (estimated grown out weight) MAX of fish can be supported provided they have enough aeration and flow through the filters. For a Floating raft system, you may need to do more research to figure out the best bio-filter for your situation. I know it can be done as the really big commercial systems do floating rafts with separate bio-filters and solids filters.


In flood and drain gravel beds, the trapped detritus is good and we add some composting worms to make it even better. It makes for being able to grow flowering/fruiting plants in Aquaponics and not just the leafy greens that most raft systems grow. In other situations, or when stocking fish more heavily, removing solids is probably the way to go but more research still probably needs doing on that score.


This topic is hot. Look up solids removal. Swirl filters. etc Lots of debate going on here.


For raft growing, people usually want a pretty big space. Cutting rafts to fit in 5 gallon buckets would probably be really tedious. Look up uniseals though if you do decide to plumb your 5 gallon buckets together as they are cheaper than bulkhead fittings and will work in a curved surface.


Not sure but many people use rock wool or hydroton in the net pots. Somewhere in my system thread there are pictures of my "net pots" made of yogurt cups and I found that if I run a rayon mop string through the holes punched in them, it will wick enough moisture up to a lettuce seed so it can germinate in place rather than having to be transplanted or top watered. There are probably pictures of that on my web site under the Hydroponics heading as well..... Yea a bit more than half way down the page http://www.hydroponics.tclynx.com/


Flow, splashing and bubbles. This is also a big topic. I like to have the water constantly splashing into my fish tanks for aeration. My flood and drain gravel beds don't need any extra aeration but floating raft systems probably do need lots more aeration. If you go with 5 gallon buckets for the plants, you will probably need an air stone in each one.


Is that the water temp or air temp? Actually, if the air temp stays 80-85 F all the time I guess it doesn't matter. Perfect for tilapia and should manage to grow plants too. It might be a little warmer than some types of lettuce like but basil and many other veggies would love it.

Do some extra reading here to get an idea about how most of us do things so you will better be able to judge if our advice really applies to your situation. I really like the flood and drain gravel for smaller systems since it means less maintenance of cleaning filters and such. Some things to keep in mind. How much time do you have to devote to the Aquaponics? Do you go away for extended periods of time and need someone else to maintain it while you are gone? (means one must make maintenance tasks easy.) Is this a short term experiment? Or are you really hoping to get a substantial amount of food our of it? Where will you be setting this up. Have you looked up the barrel ponics manual yet?

Good Luck and welcome
It is really good to see young people here.
And we love pictures

AS to getting food. If you have a feed store in your city with the Purina sing, they can order a very good tilapia food for you and its not as expensive as ordering online. I suggest getting buckets with lids to store the feed.

Hmmm.
I'm wondering if flood and drain would be more practical with a dozen 5 gallon buckets?
(I could expand they can be moved)
(Would crushed porous lava rock work as the medium to fill the buckets?
I used to use it for my carnivorous plants,to grow them you use RO water peat and perlite,
instead I used lava rock. I never had issues,although people who "Reef" stay away from it because it releases iron oxide
(Iron oxide absorbs phosphates,I dunno why they don't use it in reefs)
Then I just need a pump on a repeating timer,and some aeration for the fish.
I'd use a few 55 gallon trashcans(upright,not cut),or maybe if I need to fork it out a $90 100 gallon stock tank.
I'd like to say 4 plumbed 55 gallon trashcans,filtration will be one bucket
(Bio media,lots of aeration for the nitrification bacteria,plus it gets hot and I want the bacteria be be stable)
One for fish and the other two for whatever they may need to be used for.
Since this system might be moved I will used barbed fittings and black 1 inch tubing,
I'll definitely go with uniseals since they are cheaper,and bulkheads are expensive.

My feed store sells purina so I'll talk to them since
My climate tropical,I'm in Hawaii it's pretty dry out here,always sunny and windy.
I do saltwater,no freshwater since I don't want to mess with the tap.
I'm wanting to say if I ran a lot of carbon it would get rid of the problem,
but that would be rather costly but cheaper than screwing up with some form of aquarium product..
Then again a reef safe product means it has to be safe for use,
since coral is extremely sensitive to chemicals.
Okay back to reading around here,I''' start with the barreponics article first.

Here is a link to a thread where I used uniseals through 5 gallon buckets as flood and drain grow beds.
http://backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=3628
Many of us have used lava rock, the aussies call it scoria I think. I have lots of red lava rock in the bottoms of some of my grow beds and around the drains to keep the smaller rocks back. I also have lots of sea shells and river rock as media.

Re the chloramine problem there are 2 solutions I am aware of. The first is activated carbon the second is to treat the water with sodium thiosulphate and zeolite to remove the ammonia before it can recombine with the chlorine.
I just hope we do not get this happening in Perth

Okay cool uniseals are cheap,I can get a dozen 5 gallon buckets.
Crushed lava rock works,I can get it free.
I will call my water company,I have a hunch they add chloramines but I'm not sure.
If so I guess $10 of aquarium grade carbon will be used to start the system.
Although I don't know if it is required to treat the topoff water.

Back on the uniseals,so they hold up well to UV?
If I had to break the system down would they give me much trouble?
There is a huge chance I'll be moving in a year or less,
that is why I'm not doing a larger system.
What trashcans(If I have to go with them) hold up to UV light well?
The sun is intense out here and many types of plastics crack out here in months.

To answer your previous question TCLynx,
I have a good amount of time for a few reasons.
I graduated,I'm going to college soon locally(Will take college slower until I'm like 18) and I can't ever drive,
plus I have a rather large family so a long vacation will not happen.
I love my reef, to so I'm definitely not going anywhere..

I'll get the 5 gallon buckets,look for uniseals online,
call the water company,look for a good pump,
look for some good air stones,get some airtubing,
look for a ebay for a beefy airpump,call a place I know of for tilapia
look for something better than trashcans for the fish and I think that's about it

I expect the uniseals will stand up better to UV than the 5 gallon buckets. Unless the buckets are also black.

Stock tanks tend to be really sturdy so if you are having to buy the trash cans, perhaps investing in a 300 gallon rubbermade might be worth while since it is probably a better shape for fish than trash cans (and trash cans are rarely food safe.)

As far as building to be able to dis assemble. PVC pipe is not that costly and pretty easy to cut apart if needed and then glue back together with couplings later if needed. Also, if the system is outdoors, I rarely glue gravity fed drains unless they keep leaking long term or are located where I can't see them. Bio-slime usually takes care of really small leaks in a few days. Pressurized (as in coming from the pump or going to the pump) lines should be made more secure though as an unglued fitting could come apart under pressure and empty your system of water quickly.

Just considering ways to have a cheaper & more transportable growbed setup.. How about using a sheet of plywood lined with visquine (polyethylene) instead of 5-gal buckets? Never mind: wood is expv there! Maybe dig a trench for the growbeds or simply use 2x4 to make a frame on the ground and line with plastic. Take a look at Joel's new commercial system: they dug the growbeds about 6" deep and floated styrofoam... viewtopic.php?p=181127#p181127

So would a 150 gallon rubbermaid for $120 be good for the fish and water volume ?
Or a 300 for $240 ?
Or 2X 100s at $70 each?
What would you think is best ?
I'm wanting to think that a 100 for the fish,a 100 for a DWC and I can land a dozen 5 gallon buckets for a ebb flow
for maybe $2 each not including plumbing fittings.
What do you think about that idea ?
Lettuce and other related "wet" loving greens in DWC,
air pumps pumping bubbles into the DWC and a dozen 5 gallon buckets that will be ebb and flow ?

The more water the better!

Those prices seem kind of high, but if that's all you can get.. I will not pay more than .64 cents/gallon for my tanks, and that's what Rubbermaid tanks cost here. Mathew, on this forum, uses normal plastic sheeting backed my used carpet, and keeps it out of the sunlight, works great for him. Something like that would make a longer DWC than a tank and cheaper too if you can source the goods.

Well I'm kinda stuck since it's Hawaii and all.
Maybe a 100 for the fish,and a couple 55 gallon trashcans plumbed together for more water volume.
I'm wanting water volume and DWC at once,
and I think trashcans would be a good way to do both.
That alone could get me setup,get things running then expand to some flood and drain 5 gallon buckets.

No blue barrels or IBCs (industrial bulk containers) around? If there is a soft drink bottler on the island they might have some 55 gallon plastic drums to get rid of for $10 or $15 each.....

Here is a link for that purina fish feed:
http://aquamax.purinamills.com/prod_omn ... ml#tilapia

http://aquamax.purinamills.com/product.html

They have some different sizes too.

Cool
I'll call around for some barrels.my craigslist ad I put up a month ago hasn't gotten me anywhere.
If I can't get them a couple somewhat flimsy $10 trashcans and a(or two) $72 100 gallon stock tank will be there for the fish.
The trashcans can hold water and be used for DWC,that's what cool about them.
Still need to call,we don't pay the water bill so I need to f ind the company name and see..


I've been a little busy since I'm trying to get my college stuff worked out.
Like I'm not a resident yet(1 year) here(lived here for 6 years moved to Oregon for a year now I'm back)
so community college since it's cheaper and I can use the classes
(lots of dependencies,what can I clep out with etc..)
towards my BS in Agriculture specializing in aquaculture

But I want vegis for my mom,since she loves tomatoes,lettuce,peas and other stuff,
plus I have 5 younger siblings so growing your own vegis would be a pretty sweet thing.
So for fun and that reason I want to do a system,and I'll keep researching.