Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Could you repost that first link?

Working Linky: http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELPRDC5072721&acct=nosb

Thank you- I was having a devil of a time find it. I found an updated version though here.

http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile ... RDC5074508

It looks like they are still debating the issue.....

I feel the need to point out that any standard selected by or imposed by a government is going to be subject to political pressures. So organic certification, even if it started out as sensible, will inevitably become crap over a short period of time.

A self-imposed certification can remain at a high standard though.

AP, by it's nature, requires us to act for the good of fish, plants, and bacteria simultaneously.

But you all already know this... so I don't know why I'm bothering to write this post at all...

A couple of things.

Angie, friendlies in Hawaii are USDA certified organic, so it can be done and you can use the word 'organic' in the US for AP produce. From memory friendlies are certified organic by Oregon Tilth?? Oregon something anyway. If an Oregon certifier can do it for a biz in Hawaii, why not a biz in California, or anywhere else in the US?

In California you may not be able use the word organic if you are not certified, but that's different. It means that California (and possibly the whole of the US) has fallen into line with the rest of the planet, and now supports the theft of language for exclusive use of 'certified' participants. This is a blow to the pioneers of the organic movement and many are stating the following: there is little difference in practice between Monsanto claiming previously universally free genetic material for their exclusive profit, and the certification regulators claiming exclusive use of a previously universally free word and movement. When organic certifiers start suing uncertified organic growers (it's starting around the globe) it is proof positive that the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and that it's all about $$.

As far as the stupidity of the US Aquaculture legislation is concerned ,Shakespeare was right in his recipe for happiness, "First kill all the lawyers". This was latter borrowed by Karl Marx btw as; "First shoot all the lawyers", technology having developed somewhat over the intervening 300 years to facilitate the process. I have wonderful friends who are lawyers

Anyway in Oz soon we will not be able to use the word organic for AP, even if we meet the USDA standards. This is because our standard precludes the growing of food plants in anything but soil, and there are no moves afoot that my network is aware of to change this situation. So as much as I love the word organic, and have been a supporter of the movement for 30+ years, I'd rather ditch it altogether and come up with something better.

Goola, using organic feed may qualify the user to be organic or even certified organic as in friendlies, BUT it does not solve the sustainability issue which is proving to be bigger than 'organic' as a buyer motivator in our experience of selling organic product. Consumers of food are increasingly looking past organic labelling (chemical use and residue measure) for a sustainability measure of some sort eg. locavores/ buy local (food mile/carbon measure), fair trade (economic social welfare measure), carbon footprint (more sophisticated carbon use measure), Slow Food ("good, clean and fair" a very sophisticated measure of all the previous ones) and so on.

So what I am suggesting is that we move past the simplistic and increasingly bureaucratic 'organic' label, and come up with something intelligent and intelligible, that truly applies to AP, and is waaaay better.

Natural by nature.

The other buzz word that everybody is talking about is "Sustainability". I don't know how you can work that into a slogan though - "Sustainable by nature" ? Doesn't have the same ring.

But in any case, if you have a "mcfarm's sustainable produce" stall people will associate your products with all things good because that's how "sustainable" is viewed. So maybe not organically certified, but you can say being organic is just one part of being sustainable - and we're back to your "beyond organic" slogan.

Aquaponics:

sustained by nature

naturally sustained

sustained by nature - naturally sustaining / better

it's only natural

naturally clean and good

naturally better

simply better - naturally

sustainably better - naturally

Coming up with and acceptable moniker will be easy, the more complex issue will be developing a code/charter/ethic to which we aspire, and makes sense to the public/consumers. Something easy to understand that makes them say "yeah, I get it and will support it".

Mcfarm, I agree that there are USDA certified organic fish out there, even one organic shrimp, although I'm not sure how they managed it. Most, if not all, of these organic fish are Tilapia which are mainly herbivores. If you supply wild caught fish meal or fish oil, then so far the USDA standards have put a screeching halt to obtaining organic certification and by default- the produce produced in this system would not be eligible for organic certification.

And I agree that current food growing trends are not sustainable, although there is some promise in no-till agriculture. Straight aquaculture, however, must be either open ocean net pens (I can elaborate on this point if you wish) or recirculating systems as flow through are too water costly and there is too much risk for environmental polution.

In your statement, "So what I am suggesting is that we move past the simplistic and increasingly bureaucratic 'organic' label, and come up with something intelligent and intelligible, that truly applies to AP, and is waaaay better.", are you looking for a catch phrase (organic, green, natural) that can be universally linked to AP or are you looking for a full on assult to thrust AP in the limelight world-wide. Either way, the consumer will have to identify with the product as being superior, better for the environment, what have you or they will not see any advantage over the current organic label. No matter which way you want to take this, I'll help as much as I can. Marketing is probably the weakest point for me but it got a lot stronger after doing a full scale commercial business plan and assessing the strenghts and weaknesses of my competition, not only locally, but regionally and internationally.

Was going to suggest raised on fish crap not bullshit or you can't catch swine flue from fish, but I see this is getting serious

[quote="Angie" are you looking for a catch phrase (organic, green, natural) that can be universally linked to AP or are you looking for a full on assult to thrust AP in the limelight world-wide. [/quote]

Both Angie, but a catch phrase which is great for the US maybe so so in OZ due to cultural differences / emphasis. Really what I am hoping is that AP (which is still in it's infancy) doesn't get conned and go down the path of industrial organics, or get hijacked by the aquaponics and/or hydroponics industries. We should learn from their many mistakes and be better.

Whilst the profit motive has been paramount in all commercial ventures, this can come at a cost to things outside the business eg. the atmosphere/enviroment, third world slave wages etcetra. Currently an AP venture could be set up south of the border with pure profit as the incentive, pay a pittance in wages, use unsustainable wild fish as food, truck the produce a thousand miles, and then compete directly with you in the market. They would probably win too if price is the only parameter. And this will happen if we are not pre-emptive and develop a measure of some sort to indicate that those involved are of good intent.

Personally I have nothing to gain by doing this as we have a dedicated client base that will buy all we can produce - certified/accredited or not. But I really don't want to see the big players screw the little guys again, and they will if we do nothing. So developing a code of some sort to which commercial operators subscribe would be a start and would help consumers differentiate the good, the bad and the ugly.

It also makes big commercial sense to be in tune with the cutting edge of consumer preferences. It means staying ahead of the game.

Sleepe, life's too short to be full time serious, a sense of humour makes us human. the selection criteria for being human should include a health dose of self deprecating humour. If you can't laugh at yourself and have others laugh at you, your idiosyncrasies, and beliefs/religion too - you shouldn't qualify.

Oh, and there's money involved

I'm not a marketing person and belive that what Douglas Adams wrote about them to be the case, however the term I use when I try and describe my system to anybody that has never heard of AP is Ecologically sustainable. Doesn't use large areas of land, uses less water and produces pretty much everthing that a person would need (meat and three veg ) without any harmfull chemicals added.
I try and avoid the term "Organic" as I have yet to find an In-Organic vegetable.

The other factor that I have noticed is that the food from the AP ( not the fish) seems to have much better flavour and aroma, this may be a subjective thing though.

Mind you most of my friends that have tried food that has come from the system just say it's "fish poo vegies"

Oh, and there's money involved

Ok Eco Friendly Food, find another f and it would be good alliteration

Ok Eco Friendly Food, find another f and it would be good alliteration [/quote]

"eco friendly food forever"