Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

VB,

post me a link to the aeroponics misters you found, i will compare them.

I'm sure that they all give the same "particle" size, it looks like fog, or the fog that comes of dry ice in water, its actually white in colour not clear, so pretty damn fine

Only a few years ago ultrasonics foggers were "top end" technology, now you can buy them from a pond shop. Its not the first time i have seen hardaware at 3x the price for specialist applications. A friend has just gotteninto the sprint cart scene, and cant belive that some of the blokes spend $5000+ on an engine management system that does half of what over the counter ones do (like the one i'm about to buy ) Its just that Mr XYZ uses this one and he wins so we are all going to use that.

Particulate matter in the solution was always a problem because they used to used high pressure air and nutient solution sprayers $100+ per nozzel (these are worth it ) to obtain as fine a mist as possibble, needless to say the solution needed to be very clean to stop blockages.

I've seen the water in murrays and EBs systems, trust me this will be fine. Below is the tank with my jades (Badly in need of a water change) and below that a samlpe of that water with the fogger in it. works fine. The ceramic discs are interchangeable when they require replacing.

Regarding the nute stength: I'm fairly sure that plant roots take up nutirents via osmosis (solution strenght VS internal plant). If it works for grow beds it will work for aero. The reason we want high volume flow in aqua is for the bacteria to have a constant flow of ammonia to work on and convert (Correct me here EB if i am wrong)

I'll bet the only difference in the commercial misters is their power output. post me those links and i'll have a look

hope this helps

Steve

Here is one fogger 1 and another Fogger 2 and another Real big fogger.

Don't quite understand your reasonning regarding the fish water having enough nutrient. If the water was continually replenished, like in your earlier drawing, then I think it might be okay, but otherwise I reckon that there would not be enough, particularly to grow the plants. My common sense (which is often wrong ) tells me that per litre of fish water there would not be a high concentration of nitates or amonia in a healthy system.

Steve - I could have sworn that I saw replacement disks for the foggers on ebay - but now can't find them. I see that the place that sells the fogger does not list replacement disks - are you concerned about sourcing ones that will fit this unit?

VB,

Gimmick, Damned gimmics. Crack open any of those fogger "devices" you linked to and you know what you'll find? a fogger like on ebay the big mama- fogger just has multiple units. The devices look like they "pump" the fog into the crow chamber.

Now, A healthy system (once again EB correct me if ia am wrong) should have ZERO Ammonia, ZERO Nitrites, and variable nitrates depending on the fish to plant ratio. For example: last time i tested my indoor aquarium i had 160PPM nitrates, this was becasue i didn't have many plants growing in there at the current time. Back when it looked like a forest the nitrates were around the 40PPM mark becasue they were being consumed by the plants.

The reason i said that a sealed bucket would be fine for striking roots on cuttings is becasue they are often done in just plain water, the stem won't take nutrients until its root have developed and then your mission is accomplished. Of course, if you wish to GROW the plants in there then you could design it as per my drawing, so the solution is cont. "freshened up".

VB "per litre" suggests nutrient volume or weight. The per litre or flow rate doesn't matter. Its the percentage concentration or PPM of the nutrients in the water which contacts the roots. For example in a hydroponics set up if you measured the conductivity of the solution every day when growing big tomatoes you would see a distinct decrease in conductivity as the plants removed nutrients from the solution. At a given value you would dump your water and mix up new chemicals. As the fish/bacteria relationship produces nitrates (our chemicals ) its is being constantly replenished, IMO a flow rate of 1 litre per minute would be more than enough for a BIG backyard aero or DWC setup. I wish i still had my conductivity meter, you could prove this by measuring water "in" to your bucket and water "out" of your bucket, if there was a big difference in conductivity then the flow rate would need to be increased.

This is actually the design of NFT, the solution IS NOT re-circulated. The NFT "gutters" are way long, and by the time the very slow film of nutrient flow has reached the end it is depleated of nutents and is disposed off becasue the plants have taken them up.

Hope this has made my theory clearer. Ask away, i love questions

Steve

You like questions - I'll give you questions. Do you know the simple explanation for why cuttings root so much better in a fogger environment than if you just chucked the ends in some water?

Regarding not needing nutrient to root, I expect you are correct there as I have been achieving impressive strike rates in my test grow bed that I have connected to my first pond and this pond simply has a bit of nitrosol chucked in it now and again (rarely) and has a pile of duckweed on top that in probably consuming any nutrient I put in anyway.

Yep, is becasue the O2 level is saturated (in some cases super saturated as in higher than normally possible concentration in water)

It has long been proven that root health (and plant health) is related to dissolved oxygen in the water. Thats why DWC and Aero have such impressive growth rates. And why boggy soils and stagnant water encourage "root rot"

When plant stems are kept in the dark (VERY IMPORTANT) and moist they will sping roots. This is the basis for most propogating methods, cant remember the names now, the one where you loop a stem into the dirt and them back out, the one where you tie a plastic bag with some peat moss in it around a stem, and of course the one where you take a cutting and stick it in some soil or water and hope for the best

More, gimme more questions

on a role here I see...

The term you are looking for Steve is air rooting (not to be confused with the mile high club). For me air rooting techniques have only ever been successful for plants which are reasonably easy to strike anyway. I remember trying endlessly to air root some camelias I had at a previous house (to no avail). My aquaponics system (albeit devoid of fish) has impressed me with its strike rate. It uses continuous flow. I had a 100% strike rate for rosemary and a 100% strike rate for sage. These herbs strike quite well using other methods, but never have managed 100%. I have chucked some other cuttings in now to see how some less easy to strike plants go. Mister sounds the go though.

Your sucess with your system will be due to its airation VB.

Get yourself a little mister and a 60Lt bucket like the one i used for my grow bed.

drill 20 or so holes in the lid to accomodate Ratios stem sizes and off you go. It was a long time ago, but the quickest strike rate i read on the net was 4 days. Can't vouch for its truthfullness.

It will make a nice little self contained "rooter" for you

Mate - I'd be drilling a hell of a lot more than 20 holes in a lid that size. In my grow bed I chuck the cuttings into the gravel in bunches of 10

Now you got me all excited about putting my fogger to use

Was going to wait until i could incorp. it into the system, but now i gotta do something with it

Is any one interested in some rooted cuttings of "stevia"? seriously, its a plant. Its a zero calorie sweatener. like natural nutra sweet about 100X sweater than sugar if you dry and powder it. Is also good for actually moderating blood sugar levels. I'd recomend this to anyone who currently uses artificial sweatener (much better for your body that that CRAP)

Let me know and i'll take some cuttings and propgate them aero style will be a good show and tell test for the mister too

Hey Steve, bought my Stevia plant just a few weeks ago. Isn't looking real happy at the moment, probalby waiting for spring. Anyway - I too had been thinking that this is the sort of plant I could see myself propagating to give to my friends. Not too many people have them at present and they are expensive as shit in the shops. Think my little one was about $15 from B.

VB, form what i have read they prefer very free draining soils, so would proabably be really suited to aquaponics I got given about 10 or so shoots from a friend that was moving to QLD. The FDA in the USA has banned it from sale unless it make no mention of its sweetness. Now i ask you, is this to protect the good american people or the buddies at the nutrasweet companies? LOL not that our TGA is but cleaner

$15 Shit, had no idea what it was worth! how much would this have set me back?

It on the front door step, when ever someone comes over i rip the smallest bit off a leaf and give it to them saying taste this The are ver cautious, like i might be giving them some mind altering drug, then the look on their face when they say "its sweat" then a minute later when they say "really sweat" When i went to pick it up with a friend we were driving back home with that moster pot in the back of the wagon, and we both put two leaves into outr mouth. (Some times i need to try things for myself. Doh. like that the fogger hurts your finger ) Well, we had to pull into the nearest servo for a bottle of water! It was like we had just eaten half a kilo of sugar each

YES... I will try anything... Never seen this before (they dont have it in Africa) Have you ever tried the 'mirical' plant? You eat its fruit and EVERYTHING tastes sweet for up to 3 hours later...
You could send seeds if you have any, I am sometimes patient and could grow them myself.

no worries AM, do you want me to consolidate it with the other "package" geez, people are going to think i'm selling drugs . or would you like them NOW?

Whats this mirical plant? is that its name? sounds very interesting

I dont know the botanic name off hand (there is one in the botanic gardens here in town, I will swing by next week to get its scientific name), but most people I know call it the mirical plant...

As for the "package"... I am patient, but not THAT patient... sooner rather than later