Using Inground Pool for fish raising (Outdoor system, US)

hydrophilia

Let's see: if we rough that out to about 1kg of fish and guess that you will be feeding 2% to 5% of their weight per day, you are still going to get a nice ammonia spike even with that much water. Do you have even a ten-gallon aquarium with an undergravel filter? If you were to toss a single small goldfish in there (indoors), it would be pretty much cycled by the time you get your catfish. Then just clean out the aquarium and toss all the gravel and sludge into your new growbed and you will be 95% cycled. Just a thought............... You can even get a feeder goldfish, toss it in 6ppt salt water (to get rid of any ich, a common infection on feeder goldfish)(that would be 227 grams or 8oz of rock salt in ten gallons) and toss salt, fish, water, and gravel into the new big system when time comes..

I mention undergravel filters because I have not had experience with others, but any filter that you can de-sludge into your new growbeds will work wonderfully.

I'm jealous of your access to catfish. Everything is so controlled out here....

OzarksPermie

Hydrophilia,
I know what you mean about Ca being controlled. I spent last summer in Sebastapol, considering a move out there. Yeah, getting just about anything done was so much more expensive, regulated, and complicated.

The pool already has a super high ammonia reading, minnows, and a couple of feeder goldfish. (Did not pretreat for ich.)

I do have a 20-gallon aquarium. Thought I'd change the filter (regular old box system), tossing it into the GB, pool skimmer, or somewhere in the system--once things warm up. Unfortunately, I did not treat the goldfish before tossing them in the pool.

De-sludge into GB?

hydrophilia

OzarksPermie wrote:

I do have a 20-gallon aquarium. Thought I'd change the filter (regular old box system), tossing it into the GB, pool skimmer, or somewhere in the system--once things warm up. Unfortunately, I did not treat the goldfish before tossing them in the pool.

De-sludge into GB?

The bacteria in a sponge filter can end up as a thick sludge in the sponge or whatever. If it is washed into the gravel (especially right into the water flowing into the growbed) it will inoculate it very nicely. An undergravel filter will have loose solids from fish as well as bacterial fairly tightly attached to the gravel, so I've simply dug that gravel into my growbed when I've used it in the past.

TCLynx

Like when you squeeze out the aquarium filter in a bucket of (non chlorinated) water, the sludgy water in the bucket is a good way to kick start the grow beds. Just plan on a good aquarium cleaning when you get your first grow bed hooked up.

OzarksPermie

Last week, a huge utility truck pruned trees along my electric line, chipping limbs along the way. I inquired if the guys would like to dump the beautiful chips in my back yard. "Sure," said the driver. He backed toward a fence, and all tires spun. The trunk sank and tilted. It was stuck, big time.

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After a while, a line truck dropped by and tugged the utility truck out of the hole whereupon we discovered an old septic tank. Wow, I thought, isn't that interesting. I'll have to fill it with gravel. What an expensive load of mulch. OR, I could convert this problem into an opportunity. So my urban ranch hand, Jack, and I got to work. He shoveled and I toted the "black gold" bucket by bucket.

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Eventually, we had a very nice in-ground fish tank. Stay tuned for the next stage of development.

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Mathew

Good for you Rebecca!

That's the way to do it. How many gallons will you be able to hold? I guess you at least know where "part" of your system will be.

Now you need to find some built in growbeds, maybe you should let the truck drive around the yard for a while and see what else he finds.

Mathew

OzarksPermie

Mathew, it's nearly 500 gallons! With inflow and outflow valves built in.

TCLynx

That might make a handy sump tank for some system down the line!!!!

Did you still get the wood chips?

RupertofOZ

Like your thinking Rebecca.... sump tank sounds like the go.... :wink:

OzarksPermie

TCLynx:There's enough mulch to fill the septic tank several times over.

It's a bit chilly today, but I may start cleaning the tank. Water with chlorox and a good brush, I suppose.

OzarksPermie

Here's an update. Tested the septic tank for water holding capacity. It held great. Then raised the level of the septic tank (now FT) to ground level with concrete blocks. I am currently building two plywood flood/drain GBs in an "L" shape above the FT. (They will be 18" tall as a safety barrier so that no one accidentally stumbles into the FT, now 5' deep.)

The EDPM liner is on hand. Catfish fry 3-4" are available. Male tilapia also available. Trying to get everything up and running asap. A could use help on a few items:

1) Can someone recommend an affordable, efficient pump that can handle some gunk on the bottom and pump at least 400 gallon/hour at a head of 7-8'? (Must be readily available in the US)

2) I have Joel's manual but do not find his standpipe description/schematic sufficiently understandable to enter the plumbing stage. Is there a best practice example, using uniseals, anywhere in the forum?

3) Where do you buy the electric timer?

Thanks so much,
Rebecca

TCLynx

How much does the tank hold now? You should go for a pump that can move at least the volume of the tank (and you can probably go up to double the volume of the fish tank if you want room for expansion or extra aeration) in an hour at the required head (remember that head height for a pump is actually from the surface of the water to the outlet of the pipes, not from the bottom of the tank even if that is where the pump is sitting since the depth of the water does not need much effort to move, only the height above the water that the pump has to lift.)

This might not be the cheapest place in the US to find pumps but it is a handy place to learn a bit about them. Happens to be where I got my main pump but I have the advantage of the place being local so didn't pay any shipping for it.
http://www.aquaticeco.com/

I also have a waterfall pump from Lowes in my system and a few water garden pumps from Harbor freight. The really important thing about pumps and AP is you want pumps that have no metal other than stainless steel touching the system water and you want fish safe pumps that have no oil to leak out and kill the fish.

Since you are talking about using timers and standpipes for your flood and drain. You will actually need a pump that can move the volume of your fish tank in whatever fraction of the hour you intend to have the pump on for.
So if for example your fish tank is 500 gallons and you will only have the pump on for 15 minutes out of the hour, you probably want a pump that can move closer to 2000 gallons in an hour. The 1/3rd HP waterfall pump I got from Lowes with move 1900 gallons an hour at 5' head and only draws 2.6 amps so is relatively efficient and probably cost me around $150, it is fish safe and submersible. Then you just need to do a search for a timer that you can plug it into that will do 15 minute increments all around the clock. These are easy to find for indoor situations but a little more difficult to find for outdoors. You can get the 15 minute increment on/off timers for indoors really cheap but then you need to make a weather proof housing for it (the link above to Aquatic eco has them.) Most digital timers can do what ever length of time you wish but they usually have a limited number of on/off cycles per day and I've not found many in the US for a reasonable price that would work for AP. Most hardware stores have timers, you just want to make sure the timer can handle the amps that your pump will draw at start up.

As to the stand pipe, does this image help any?

See Diagram thread for more helpful pics
http://backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5311

You would simply place the uniseal through the hole cut for it in the plywood, you don't even need to cut a hole in the liner yet, just kinda push it into the hole under the uniseal. Drill the appropriate size holes in the pipe just above where you will have the pipe go through the uniseal. Cut a slit in the liner through the hole in the uniseal, Put some rubbing alcohol on the end of the pipe and the uniseal and push the pipe through the uniseal until the holes in the pipe are just above the uniseal. This is a bit more difficult that in sounds if the plywood is thick and the pipe size large. Make sure you have a good angle to push from or better yet, find someone who needs to show off their strength to do it for you. It is easier with smaller sizes and thinner tank/bed materials. It is a good idea to have the top of the pipe already cut to or lower than the desired flood level of the bed, you can always add a coupler or something to raise the flood level but managing to cut the pipe within a bed can be difficult if you can't get free range of motion. Definitely drill the holes ahead of time or make sure the bed is empty and the drain placement is such that you could drill the drain holes in place. Then you need some sort of outer mesh tube or pipe with lots and lots and lots and lots of holes to keep the gravel back. I like the mesh tube because drilling holes in pipe gets tedious and you might be amazed at how many holes are needed. Reason to keep the gravel back is to allow drain cleaning. Roots love to clog up small drain holes. It is also handy to be able to look and see that everything is functioning properly and to check the water level in the bed and so forth. A rock or basket set over the outer mesh pipe can keep leaves and frogs from clogging the plumbing.

Good luck, hope this helps

OzarksPermie

TCLynx wrote:

How much does the tank hold now? You should go for a pump that can move at least the volume of the tank (and you can probably go up to double the volume of the fish tank if you want room for expansion or extra aeration) in an hour at the required head (remember that head height for a pump is actually from the surface of the water to the outlet of the pipes, not from the bottom of the tank even if that is where the pump is sitting since the depth of the water does not need much effort to move, only the height above the water that the pump has to lift.)
<<I will probably not expand in this location but move back to the inground pool for expansion.
The two grow beds will be 200-250 gallons. If the media takes up about 2/3 of the space, then we're talking about a water volume of 65-85 gallons, changing out once an hour. To make the GB fill in 15 minutes, seems like I need a pump rated at 340 gallon/hour max. Right?

And per your "head" clarification, I need a pump that will deliver that flow at 3'.

The GBs are sized to yield about 50# of fish in a 400-450 gallon FT.

-----
I also have a waterfall pump from Lowes in my system and a few water garden pumps from Harbor freight. The really important thing about pumps and AP is you want pumps that have no metal other than stainless steel touching the system water and you want fish safe pumps that have no oil to leak out and kill the fish.
<<Got it. Thanks.

-----
You can get the 15 minute increment on/off timers for indoors really cheap but then you need to make a weather proof housing for it (the link above to Aquatic eco has them.) Most digital timers can do what ever length of time you wish but they usually have a limited number of on/off cycles per day and I've not found many in the US for a reasonable price that would work for AP. Most hardware stores have timers, you just want to make sure the timer can handle the amps that your pump will draw at start up.
<<So there are no readily available outdoor timers that will do the 15 minute increment thing in the US?

______

As to the stand pipe, does this image help any?

See Diagram thread for more helpful pics
http://backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5311
<< It's better than most I've seen, but I was looking for a more detailed schematic that calls out the size and name of each part and shows them fitting together, plus the size and location of drain holes. The kind a schematic a plumber would do. For example: 1) what size standpipe will I need? It seems like the smaller the better from the perspective of heft required but one also has to achieve the necessary drainage rate. 2) Joel shows (2) 6 mm holes at the bottom of the standpipe. Is that a good place to start, regardless of GB size? 3) How much slope in the GB toward the drain? 4) What is the outer mesh tube called? If you use a pipe instead per Joel's diagram, what size would it be and how does water get in? Details. Details.

----

You would simply place the uniseal through the hole cut for it in the plywood, you don't even need to cut a hole in the liner yet, just kinda push it into the hole under the uniseal. Drill the appropriate size holes in the pipe just above where you will have the pipe go through the uniseal. Cut a slit in the liner through the hole in the uniseal, Put some rubbing alcohol on the end of the pipe and the uniseal and push the pipe through the uniseal until the holes in the pipe are just above the uniseal. This is a bit more difficult that in sounds if the plywood is thick and the pipe size large. Make sure you have a good angle to push from or better yet, find someone who needs to show off their strength to do it for you. It is easier with smaller sizes and thinner tank/bed materials. It is a good idea to have the top of the pipe already cut to or lower than the desired flood level of the bed, you can always add a coupler or something to raise the flood level but managing to cut the pipe within a bed can be difficult if you can't get free range of motion. Definitely drill the holes ahead of time or make sure the bed is empty and the drain placement is such that you could drill the drain holes in place. Then you need some sort of outer mesh tube or pipe with lots and lots and lots and lots of holes to keep the gravel back. I like the mesh tube because drilling holes in pipe gets tedious and you might be amazed at how many holes are needed. Reason to keep the gravel back is to allow drain cleaning. Roots love to clog up small drain holes. It is also handy to be able to look and see that everything is functioning properly and to check the water level in the bed and so forth. A rock or basket set over the outer mesh pipe can keep leaves and frogs from clogging the plumbing.

Good luck, hope this helps

<<Very much so thank you.

Mathew

Hi Rebecca,

Here is the way I do my stand/drain pipe. It works out just like what TC said, however, it allows for a little more flexability in installation, if you can make it work with this size pipe (which from the sounds of it, I would think you could).

Use 1 1/4" pvc for your drainage pipe, starting at the Uniseal - down and out.

Use a sink pipe size 1 1/2" to insert into the 1 1/4". I know it sounds backwards, However, the sink drainage pipe sizes are measured differently than the pvc, and therefore the larger will fit perfectly into the smaller. This will allow you to slip the actual "stand" portion of the pipe out any time you like. Either to quickly drain, drill more holes, plug up or clean out holes, adjust height, or what ever else you decide you would like to do. This is far easier than hoping to get it just right the first time, like TC said, the pipes are harder to work with once installed, however, this way, you can slip the stand portion in and out at any time with no effort. This way gives you the same results that Joel gets on his systems, the difference being only the uniseal as opposed to the drain fitting that he uses (both work great).

I have a few pictures I could email if you would like, just pm me.

Hope that helps,
Mathew

OzarksPermie

Mathew,

I just checked uniseal prices. Aquatico wanted $18 total for two 1 1/4" uniseals. Paid
half that at the place you recommended:
https://www.mpproductions.com/

If only I could figure out something as easy as you have devised for my rainwater harvesting system. I am using a plastic barrel as a standpipe* for a roof washing system. After the barrel fills with dirty water off the roof, the rest flows into the inground pool via a new aluminum gutter system. (Can send photos, if interested). The problem is obtaining good seals (standpipe has to hold water) but you also want easy access to the barrel so you can clean it out and drop in mosquito dunks. Haven't figured out how to achieve that yet.

*Standpipes serve a different function in a rainwater harvesting system. It is used as a first flush system to clean dirt and bird poop off the roof. Rainwater moves into and fills the standpipe first. Once the standpipe is full it flows into the storage tank. Later, you empty the standpipe via a faucet so that it's ready for the next rain.

Rebecca

Backyard Aquaponics A place to discuss aquaponics

Using Inground Pool for fish raising (Outdoor system, US)

Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics