Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Ok, I have now encountered at least two situations of public mis-information about Aquaponics. One of them was a fish farmer of all people!!!!!!

It seems that there is a mis-informed idea out there that thinks that Aquaponics promotes salmonella. The fish farmer actually refused to sell some one fish because he found out the person intended to use the fish in Aquaponics and the farmer mentioned the peanut paste salmonella outbreak as the reason you can't use catfish in aquaponics. (I must admit I got this second hand so it might not be as horrible as it sounds but still really bad.)

Just yesterday I posted on a Florida Gardening Forum that I was in search of Aquaponic Buddies and here is the answer I got back (not nearly as bad as the report on the fish farmer.) At least they are looking for information rather than jumping to a conclusion.


Now I know I've read studies where fish raised in contaminated waters will pick up a bacterial load on their skin and perhaps even in their flesh. The trick here is, the fish are not the cause of vector of the pathogen but the water or what is put into the water. I believe the studies were actually trying to say a certain amount of contamination was ok (as in using manure for algae bloom could be ok within reason) but I suspect the reactionary public could take such things the wrong way and decide the fish are the cause.

I've done some searching and found a couple mentions that Aquaponics (that doesn't use fresh land animal manure) and uses clean source water is quite safe. https://www.was.org/Meetings/AbstractData.asp?AbstractId=14941
Anyone know of more studies to support this? I'm interested in actual studies and testing, not just our collective health here on the forum. I really want to be able to nip the thing in the bud before all the salmonella hysteria can wrongly attach to Aquaponics

I found this: https://www.was.org/Meetings/AbstractData.asp?AbstractId=14941 but haven't done a lot of research on it. You might contact them and get a copy of the study.
Personally I don't think it will be a problem as long as the fish gets cooked, that's why they have those signs at sushi shops that tell you that you shouldn't eat raw fish because you might get sick. According to Wiki (not the best always) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salmonella both warm-blooded and cold-blooded animals can have it. I think if you were using chicken manure to grow algae for Tilapia you might have more worries, but as long as the fish was properly cooked it shouldn't cause problems.

IANAE* so this is only opinion.

Ron

Fish are cold blooded... therefore they do not produce e-coli...

Salmonella is a contamination bacteria.... an introduced infection... from poor hygene...

Wiki ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salmonella
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoid_fever

Salmonella can only really be introduced at the food processing stage.... and if you were selling your fish you would be bound to strict health and food handling regulations accordingly... and for that very reason...

HACCP plans are usually required, particualrly in relation to seafood processing and sale to consumer....

Fish dont "get" salmonella... and dont cause it.... humans do both....

I think where people are most worried and freaked out at least around here is they seem to think that the salmonella can somehow be in the plants raised in such a system. I don't think it is so much to do with eating the fish since we tend to cook those.

The whole spinach, tomato peanut issues in the last several years around here and all the minimally informed hype!

Salmonella can not be "in" plants... it can be introduced "onto" plants.... typically via e-coli... by poor and un-hygenic human handling...

Bad editing on my part, "Salmonella are closely related to the Escherichia genus and are found worldwide in warm- and cold-blooded animals, in humans, and in nonliving habitats. They cause illnesses in humans and many animals, such as typhoid fever, paratyphoid fever, and the foodborne illness salmonellosis.[2]" was the original quote. I agree that it's from bad hygiene in food processing and in fish there are more bacteria and hazards http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~comm/haccp4c.html to worry about than salmonella. I have been reading some of this in my spare time http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~comm/haccp4.html to figure out what I'll have to do to comply with health dept. regulations if I process fish at my restaurant.
Personally I think salmonella is a non-issue, public perception however may be a issue however.


Ron

That's the only problem I see, a hysteria created by news media hype "Oh no, the aquaponics is going to kill you" and uninformed reporting on a subject that requires more than 90 seconds to explain.
Maybe setup a web page with studies and information on potential hazards in aquaponics and ways to prevent them. Then anytime this happens just point people to it and hope they understand or do the research and find out the truth about it.


Ron

Exactly, it is the panic that we need to combat with good information.

I med a lady locally that refuses to eat aquaponic lettuce because she is afraid of the water containing bacteria. The man who sells AP lettuce has been growing it for years. He eats it raw neither him, his family or his customers have ever gotten sick from it.

The press is only good at one thing, and that misinformation.

Is she afraid of eating lettuce... and all other foods then Dandi.... most are washed in water...

And the water probably contains some sort of bacteria.... as does everything else she eats and drinks...

Perhaps you could get one of those "blow-up" bubbles for her to live in...

She is afraid to eat anything grown in fish water because "warm water is dangerous"

The plastic used to make the bubble is a carcinagenic ,, Rupe don't kill her ,,,LOL

:runstoturnjugoff: ... note to self.... iced teas only from here on...

And cold showers..... buggered if I can find my old tin foil hat... :goeslooking:

As with all things in life , a risk versus benefit calculation must be made. Do I drive my car to work,,,we all know the statistics on accidents ( OOPS forot they are now called Incidents) ..... do you cross the street??
I suggest the risk of getting sick eating ANY lettuce is minimal ,, and there is absolutely no reason that the risk would be greater from an aquaponic lettuce.
Soil has more than it's share of bacteria etc also.
perhaps it would be better to voncentrate on a far more potent problem???
Do these people eat Thai food ? / Chinese food ..... go to the Vietnamese take=away???
Now we are talking a serious problem ,, not a little upset stomach for a day or so ..... Hepatitus B . 350 MILLION carriers out there ( estimate) ..... 78% from Asia .
1 MILLION people a year die from liver cancer / failure directly due to Hepatitus... Kinda makes the lettuce look pretty safe???

Ah but Chappo, ya can't stay home since most accidents happen at home. And the bathroom is very dangerous and probably full of bacteria too. LOL

Ya know, people just get crazy ideas in their heads. I've heard of people refusing to eat backyard eggs because they seem to think that the eggs from the store have somehow been made safer by their trip on a truck and being kept in storage for over a month before being put out for customers.

And god forbid some one might eat fruit that was grown outdoors on a tree!!!!!! They would much rather get the fruit that was somehow manufactured in the sterile environment of the grocery store. (Some people have no idea how or where their food actually comes from.)