Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

The other thread at:
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1639&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=105
seemed to die in 2007 so figured I'd make a new one. What was the final version of the outer flouter? Did you ever think of a more publically legal name or description for it? It's designed as one of those bamboo pivot water features.

I FINALLY came across that thread to see the design after many days of trying to create a flushing system that would work for my system. My system is so small that the water only trickles and is not enough to start a bell siphon or a loop siphon, it just trickles out both of them. I'm the process of coming up with other designs but as I test them out, I see that they must defeat physics at some point. Before I saw the later pictures, I was thinking the 3 outlet sprinkler would be perfect for a rotating pivot for this device and then there it was in a later picture! I had used the same sprinkler in one of my concepts, so it is still next to the many pvc parts at home I've been playing with. I had almost thought of this design but couldn't grasp the concept of how to pivot the device because I knew that pvc fittings were generally tight against one another, I hadn't thought of the sprinkler until I started reading the thread (even though it was sitting there on my floor).

I'm thinking the outer flouter could be streamlined by removing the water bottles and just keeping it off vertical center so it looks more like a bamboo pivot water feature thingy. Was this something that was previously weeded out as not an option during testing? Perhaps it could even be painted to look the same, heh.

Thorn

Franks design viewtopic.php?p=140919#p140919
Will be going with this or a flout in a toilet cistern.

The flout is a patented device - so using the term flout is probably not the best to use if designing a new concept device.

I'm still keen to try and source a suitable alternating flout for my big system when I build it.

VB

Can't find the patent for the alternating flout , and have given up (for the moment ) on trying to work it out from the pics.

Think Thorns problem is water flow too slow to the gb's, a single flout on each bed (external) should solve that unless there are FT sump dramas as well.

What is this "outer flouter" you speak of? That link didn't have anything on that page about it.

Sorry about the link, it was the last page of that thread that discussed it.
At any rate, this device makes a good type of siphon drain. Let's call it a "pivot siphon". Seems to fit it pretty well.

Think I found the problem with my testing. If anyone else has tested such a small, slow moving system before, they haven't posted about it. So it's about time someone did! The problem was I was using 1/2 inch pipe and tubing and the trickle was too small to kick it off. The trickle in would produce a trickle out. I had one test so far last night with a 1/4 inch tubing on a bell siphon and it worked so I've come to the conclusion that aquaponics plumbing tubing should match the size of the water pump tubing. I'm hoping to do more testing tonight and get a pivot siphon going.

I tried out one of these devices tonight. I understand the bottles now, makes it easier to match the weights on both ends so it flips down and flips up. With only a pipe, the weight difference range is much much smaller to get that working. Once I overcame the weighted ends, it still seems to be a little finicky. Once the bottle filled up, it turned, emptied and flung back. Eventually it got into a swinging rhythm seesaw pattern. It did not stay down to completely drain the siphon. Once the bottle emptied, it no longer had enough weight to stay down. I did cut open that end of the bottle. Should I have just left it as a smaller hole? Where should the hole be positioned to ensure a constant siphon pull while retaining weight?

As a side note, I think I've found a great flout alternative for my shoebox size containers should I ever decide to donate that much room to one. It is a bendy straw! You just have to weaken the crinkles some by working them and smushing them but then the long end of the straw returns back down easier. At least it did in dry testing on my office desk.

I liked the idea of the "pivot siphon" when it was first flouted (sorry I meant flaunted), unfortunately I had already started using the bell siphons and stuck with them.

Main advantage was it would work at any input flow - as long as it wasn't greater than the pipe size outflow

Disadvantage was the area required to operate it, which was originally inside the GB and as such taking up GB area
- the Outer Pivot Siphon (OPS) or Outer Flouter was invented to overcome this.

Overall - it is a very simple and reliable device, the only setback is the amount of room required for operation

The other drawback would be finding accordion style tubing for the bending part. If you can find that and have the space, the pivot siphon would be easiest to setup. Although I think I may have found the logistics of setting up bell siphons fool proof, but that should be another thread.

Well the Flout can be placed in a tank outside the grow bed connected via hose. And the water level could be adjusted by raising or lowering the Flout tank. Would it make you all happy if you could buy just the flex tube we use for the Flout? Or a mini Flout kit with Flout body, Flex section and weight with assembly instructions?

I'm sure many would be interested though I'm not sure how many would pay much for it. What size scale would this be on. I know the Septic system Flouts are generally way too big for most backyard AP applications. Do you make them in a 1" size range?

Yes, 1 inch is the size we are working on, but we want it to last and work correctly the first try. Hard to tell what is the best choice in Flout design for Aquaponics, but there is some real talent here, so I am sure any problems can be solved.
The external Flout tank fill lines could be from the bottom of the fish tank, sweeping up any solids, as the water flows into the Flout tank and out. We are also working on a PVC liner to be bonded to directly to plywood, so you could cut and fit custom tanks. You could even build a cone/sloped bottom.
We will have a working model of the 3 way CueBox Flout at the Holiday Inn in Auburn NY March 10, at a soil and water conservation meeting. If allowed, we leave it set-up all week.

Well, my unit is still working I'm proud to say. The bendy straw and ping pong ball with marbles as weights inside of it with airhole strategically placed. Once the straw started to stiffen back up at the bendy part and didn't want to sink, I added a second marble and it has performed consistently ever since. (And I have learned that a square box would be easier to operate than to make a ball shape work again, heh).

I think it's great that you are seeking new markets for the device. Granted my copy prototype is tiny but my growbeds are also only the size of a shoebox. If you are going to market to aquaponics, I would tend to think one inch and two inch versions would be what would get used. I can definitely say that aside from the seal leaking the first try I had (using silicone on both sides, and I manhandled the straw too much), it works great and at any flow, even with my super slow flow. People can generally add an adapter to go up or down from one inch or two inches if they need to. If you are going to try one first, then I would suggest one inch as well, unless it gets outvoted here.

Sell the unit with a uni-seal or some type of seal that is foolproof and can accommodate different thicknesses (or offer thickness options). If you are going to offer an outside container unit pre-setup, then maybe also offer a no holes overflow or a way to adjust it up and down to the proper water level.

That sounds like it could have some real potential for a CHIFT PIST system running a continuous pump from a smaller sump tank to be able to sequence three different grow beds. Just have to work out the Flout tank volume to make sure the beds flood to an appropriate depth before drain down to the sump. Something like this would really help those people resistant to having a really big sump.

I would probably nix the no holes overflow though, too prone to failure unless some one comes up with an automatic way to ensure it keeps it's vacuum.

About how big would a 3 way indexing external Flout Be? I'm assuming the 1" piping.

Thorn

The flout can be made to dump at varying water levels in the box by placing a restriction on its allowable movement external to the flout mechanism itself. This is how the alternating flout works.