Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Sure Jens.... is true. Is awful when that happens. When it happens to me I just understand that they are insecure in what they believe. Pushing the envelope a little is sometimes the best thing that can happen for them! In the right spirit of course........

But I find that this attitude is true with some people on many subjects in life besides religion. Politics, sport, money........ I must admit to enjoy having a little fun with them. Take themselves too seriously. No man is an island. We all need each other. Conflict is usually the path to better understanding. I must admit to welcoming it if done in the right spirit. I have grown more with opposition than with those who just pander to my opinion.

If we keep shutting people up because they may let their belief system show it just becomes intolerable for all. Watching people be "politically correct" has given me much scope for humour. The ridiculous positions they end up in is truly comical.

I have zero tolerance for bigotry. And I like the game to be honest and fair. Not set someone up to take a knock for a belief system that was not under discussion.......... just because they let slip something that showed a belief system that might be different to another's. That is bigotry and just plain unfair. Like kicking someone in the side when they thought they were only playing a board game.


Back on topic.......
Excellent video by Peakmoment. "Self-sufficient small farms". Just be patient past the initial news read.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC1RFW8xgT0
I have watched lots of their videos. Really informative.

Hey Guys,
I appreciate the thinking that what I wrote provoked, and apparently my attempts to say I can't write differently than who I am did not get through. I am not a religious nut trying to evangelize the AP community. Nor am I a hater of other religions, nor am I that politically founded that I so easily play the "free speach" card. I'm just me. I express my thoughts in writing, sometime clearly, and other times (apparently) not so much.

My AP philosophy, livestock raising philosophy, vegetable garden philosophy, child raising philosophy, ecological philosophy, driving my car philosophy, etc. all have a basis in my spiritual beliefs. I am not writing "religiously", I'm just writing. And if my spriritual beliefs come out in my thoughts... duh.

Please stop with the direction this thread has turned. The topic concerned our food supply, what we are eatting, how to eat better... something along that thread.

How about we all get back in the sand box and just build some sand castles? Thats all I wanted to do anyway!

Respectfully,
Tony

Sand is fun

Cool Outback...

Pass that little red bucket and the little yellow shovel and lets build! Got any "Hot Wheels" cars. I always loved to play with Hot Wheels in the sandbox!

T.

..........add some cement and some rocks and I will show you how I am building my AP system.

Youve got enough rocks already!

Sure do! Can even just collect them.

That area I showed you guys got opened up for a parking area...... now have to figure out how to break those huge rocks up! Had one guy come quote.... asked me how much money I had! ... said it is "elephant rock".... very hard stuff........breaks drill bits real easy. We have broken some for the drive with fire and water and smashing with a 10lb hammer.... very very hard work and too slow. I need these broken rocks as fill in my AP walls so have to find a way. Nice pieces I will also build with.

Almost finished a worm farm now.... all practice for the BIG one... AP Got my worms in a plastic tub but it is so small that it processes far too little kitchen waste. Want to process even waste paper and veld-grass into vermicompost. Think worms are wonderful.

Want to do a Boshveld chicken house, Angora rabbit "condo", fingerling pools, and a smokehouse next. Each project is taking me further down the road to self-sufficiency and giving me more experience in building. Getting pretty good now! Love doing it. So fantastic to see something take shape. But mostly my heart is into getting my AP going properly. Just can't tackle it till have bought my cement mixer.... take too long. I have a youngster from Malawi who mixes the dagga and it takes ages each morning.

*studiously keeps out of the religion portion of the topic*

Something else that I've learned with regards to the future of feeding the masses.

Large farmers (hundreds to thousands of acres) rely on Honey Bees to pollinate their crops. Problem ... the bees are mysteriously "disappearing" and hives are failing. Leading to .. well .. big problems ...

Here are a couple links I found on YouTube from a 60 minutes story done with regards to this issue.

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRBJf57aNp4

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RZv9BvQJ-A

We may have another problem looming- one that I suspected would happen if corporations were the ones growing most of our food.
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/11/ ... -food.html
Corporations are profit driven- that is the only reason they exist. If there is little or no profit in growing food, they will let the land fallow, switch to a profitable crop or sell the land as an expendable asset.
Is anyone aware of what happened during the Great Depression? California farmers literally dumped tons of oranges to rot in the fields because prices were low. I see no reason why this couldn't happen again. I hate when history repeats itself.
http://books.google.com/books?id=FO9Nrs ... #PPA122,M1

Farmers discovered that with the falling prices they could not earn enough from the sale of their produce to cover the costs of getting it to market, so farmers burned their corn to keep warm, slaughtered their livestock for their own food and dumped milk in the streets. http://www.sagehistory.net/deprnewdeal/depression.htm

Anyone need a better reason to get your systems up and running?

Something else to share.....
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/energy/chu.html
Physicist Steven Chu is poised to become the next U.S. Secretary of Energy, a position in which he will help shape energy policies for the nation. In the spring of 2008, while Chu was still serving as the Director of the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory and did not yet know about his selection for the Energy post, NOVA producer Larry Klein spoke with him about California's aggressive initiatives to curtail greenhouse gases and push the state toward renewable sources of energy. Hear what Chu had to say about California's controversial initiatives, global warming, nuclear power, and more.
CALIFORNIA'S CHALLENGE
Q: Why is global warming of particular concern to California?

Chu: California is in a unique position. First, it may suffer the consequences of climate change earlier than other parts of the United States. There's a very sobering prediction that the continual water problem that we have will become much worse. The snow pack in California, a major part of our water-storage system, will decrease anywhere from 30 to 90 percent or more. This will have a profound impact on California. If these predictions come true, much of our agriculture in California will have to move away.

Q: So are farmers in the big valleys right to be worried?

Chu: When push comes to shove, people in the cities will have to get drinking water. There will have to be a readjustment of the water allocations in agriculture. So, their livelihood is at stake.

Q: How do you see the impact on agriculture unfolding?

Chu: If the water available to the Central Valley—which, by the way, produces 20 percent of all the agricultural goods in the United States—is less available for agriculture, some of the very water-intensive crops, like cotton and rice, will have to go. Quite frankly, perhaps we should think about that now, today. But, more worrisome, many other crops may have to go as well, if we're really talking about a decrease in the water supply by factors of two or four.

The Central Valley really is a desert. Without irrigation, you've got a problem. In the coastal areas, there is a little bit of moderation. High-quality wines will probably be the last to go.

Remember when I said that farmers dumped the oranges back in the drepression, well it's already starting but this time it's milk that's being dumped.
http://www.scrippsnews.com/node/40196

Also, since the Global Meltdown has happened, the original food crisis has been all but forgotten but it hasn't gone away. In fact, it's expected to get worse.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... yati-ghosh
this second link should be of great interest to those of us here that live in Africa or close to-
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... fer=canada

I truely feel for farmers, in terms of prices they receive at the gate...

But industry seems geared... all industry... to the belief that markets will continue to grow at around 10% per annum... a fundamental flaw in business thinking IMO... and an unsustainable projection upon which to base production levels and pricing...

And often in conjuction with industry subsidies.... and a stubbon (perhaps understandable) refusal to adjust pricing to demand...

Now, take that in conjunction with the other articles regarding world food shartages and starvation....

Rather than dump the milk (or what ever)... why not direct it into low cost food supplements for the starving nations ... i.e milk powder.... because the "high value", "high markup" products are more the total focus perhaps.... even if they're not selling... and companies are going broke....

Such a sad waste. Some of my friends and I are getting involved with a place that takes in unwanted babies.... mostly just dumped there. That milk could be put to good use.

It is so weird how this kind of thing always happens. The cry is no food and the starving masses and then excesses are just dumped. Doesn't compute! It makes me more and more determined to farm. I want my own Jersy cow. At the end of the year someone is bringing me rice seeds to get that going. Doesn't look hard. What is precious to me now is not having a new car but collecting what is sustainable here on my farm. My Moringas are growing well. I am also trying to locate the Neem tree too. Those who plan ahead will be feeding many I believe.

Africa in parts is in a terrible state. Soil science is non-exisitent in parts, and erosion is high. When I take on staff the first thing they want to do is slash and burn! I even took a couple of my guys on a course in good husbandry to help them understand that mulch and undergrowth is valuable. Most just think snakes ......and scorched earth policy is the result. The rivers of Africa run brown with the topsoils washed off the land. Very sad.

I know a dairy farmer. They will not sell when they get stuck selling milk for free. It really pisses them off that they put their lives into producing product only to be told how much they are going to sell it for. They would rather just take a complete loss to help drive the price back up. They can only keep it for so long as well so they have to keep milking and dumping or the cows would dry up.

Now, if there was a service that would come pick up their milk for free to "dispose" of it to make powdered milk for feeding hungry people and provide a tax deductible receipt for nonprofit charity they would most likely be happy to do so.

They have no means to move the milk. Having no pasteurizer they can not even give the milk to the public or government will shut them down in a big way. So to prevent this kind of waste there needs to be some infrastructure in place to move and process the raw milk and get it to the people who need it.

I agree with what you say Dandi... and fully understand the plight of the dairy farmer... (grew up on a dairy farm in NZ)....

Was more suggesting theat the processing companies themselves should pick up the milk as usual... but diversify into other products like the milk powder...

Given the modern processing of milk... it is essentially near enough to a milk powder or pellet form before being re-constituted for end sale as a "milk" product anyway...