Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

I think we are all stuck in the modern age. There are older, proven ways to harness the wind. My Grandmother had a windmill that pumped water via a reciprocating pump up to a large tank on top of her house.

If you set up a crankshaft turned by the wind and hooked it up to a pair of large bellows, you could get relatively high pressure air. I saw an old blacksmith shop set up like that when I was a kid. Bellows are low tech and quite efficient. They obviously can be hand built.

And if you're pumping water up and dropping it, the hit and splash on the way down increases the air content of the water. The technology is already there, no conversion required.

Anybody ever bothered thinking about using a windmill to pump water directly, for circulation? Or pump it into a large feed tank which then slowly empties?

My issues is this...
The Nicaraguan site we have to work with has power but regulary drops power for 6-12 hours at a time. This is grid power and should be seen as a constant in this equation (the droiping that is). So we have been trying to come up with alternate methods.

We have thought of solar electric but we will be leaving this system with people so we will need to train, and also we will need to learn andcreate training docs for it. We may still use it, probably will at some point, but we are still interested in alternate ways.

We also have a potential mini-hydro plant but it will have the same issues as the solar. Pumping water directly, an overflow in the tank, sems the most direct however we don'r know the wind consistency- which we will need to. Wind electric (aero-electric?) is also a possibility.

Anyway, what do you think.

T.

What I think, is that if you look back to not so long ago, farmers used windmills to pump from creeks, dams and bores.
This was low pressure pumping using a piston pump on the cam I believe.

Because low pressure isn't so great for moving water around, they pumped it up a tower to increase the head of pressure, and use as they liked.

The only problem with this is, you don't need high volume high pressure often, so the windmill, pumping a tiny bit to a high head is ok, and then you can drain the tank quickly, and not use it for a time.

I think, unless the mill can deliver water faster than you can use it, a continuous outflow from the header tank will serve no purpose.
If the header is being used as a 'battery' storing the energy the windmill produces, to buffer for when there is no wind, all well and good.

Personally I would set up a large header tank. I would set up an electric pump, to keep it 75% full. When the power goes out, you have stored kinetic energy up there, all is well with the world.

In order to save money, the windmill could also pump up there, filling the last 25% of the tank, and therefore if it's windy, the power pump never turns on. When the power goes off, you have the windmill, and the stored water to get you through.
This is basically the same principal as connecting solar panels to the grid... when you make more power (or pump more water) because it's more windy, then that goes gets stored up as 'credit' to be used later.

Eventually if you add enough windmills and header tanks, the power pump will become an emergency device only.

Yep, agree... but as a battery you must size the tank correctly. So now the issue becomes is the size of the tank or tanks needed to use it as stored energy econmically justifed. I dunno, wind is free so the cost comes to the windmill or mills and the tank size.

In the test case of the Nicaraguan orphanage, I know the power will drop out for 6 - 12 hours daily. My gut says to go with solar or hydro and use DC pumps because of the consistency, however there is a rainy season that we need to be taken into account. And also the more technology the more the reliance on technology. Again, I will need to do some research concerning wind consistency in the mountains above Managua.

The biggest plus for wind pumping to me is that of its simplicity. I think repairs would be much easier being standard mechanics with some hydrolic theory thrown in.

Anyway, I like to hear the various ideas. Thanks!

Tony

If you have access to running water, you should check out a hydraulic ram.
http://www.atlaspub.20m.com/rampg.htm

yeah ram pumps are cool, but can be noisy, and are EXTREMELY inefficient. Which is fine if you have a strong river of water with a nice head you can tap off... then you can pump to great heights, a little water (in comparison to the river) for free. If you only have a trickle, not so great.
Because this is a closed loop system, pumping from a river's not so crash hot, and you can't use BYAP falling water to run a ram pump... hmmm perpetual motion machine :-) wouldn't that be nice

Tony I couldn't find any wind survey maps on average wind speeds in Managua. But I thought Hugh Piggott built some axial flux type turbine generators and set them up in Central America. Some of his designs put out fairly high wattages at low wind speeds but They require some time and effort as well as a little cash to build. http://www.scoraigwind.com/
I know all the ineffeciencies of converting to mechanical to electrical and back to mechanical but you could build both or even three One for pumping One for airation and One for power and or storeable electrical power.
http://www.dunnsfishfarm.com/20f_windmill_79_ctg.htm
http://airliftech.com/

Has any one looked at using black pipe to heat up air and have it turn a small wind mill. Just thinking of using some heat exchange to speed up the compost bins.

Nope, but some years ago I read a proposal for a (very) large chimney in a hot humid area that would, through the chimney effect, suck large quantities of moisture-laden water to its top kilometers above. Anyway, it was supposed to gain power from the wind and from hydropower from water that would come from the rising air. The calcs said that the in-rushing air would cause no danger at a half klick or so from the base.To the best of my knowledge, no one has actually built one........ *grin*

Wait, that wasn't what you had in mind, was it? Sorry.

Similar principle. I had not thought of what the windmill was going to do yet. Just the idea of using wind and thermal energy to make the windmill work for longer of a day. A small water pump could be added.

Hydro, I read- what I think you are talking about -in a Ray Bradbury short story when I was a teen called, "Tall Stacks" or something like that- I'm researching now.. The main character bought property in the desert I think and got water and power from the tall "stacks" of which a third or so was buried near is underground living quarters. Anyway, it would be interesting if this was another case of a sci-fi writer seeding real technology.

Also, I think some of you have been talking about my initial question, 'what about just using windmills to pump the water from the fish tank to a "storage" tank' however I had not thought of just using the windmill to mechanically aeirate the water in the fish tank as in something - like a paddle wheel -to slap the water and thereby force air into the water. I'm sure something more "techy" could be done but these are good ideas. I guess taking oxygen samples of the water would determine if it was effective.

If it ends up cheap to build and adds something to the system as a safe guard. I use an air blower for my system but its not the only way I get o2 into the system.

Tony have a look at this windmill airator http://www.dunnsfishfarm.com/20f_windmill_79_ctg.htm
I happened to run across this link while trying to find the wind survey map.... When I win the lottery or make my 2nd million...
http://www.nicabeachfront.com/Bocal.htm

Bill,
Windmill is certainly doable. My only concern is the consistency of wind.

The house is awesome. I always thought I would like a house on an island in a large lake, or a large river. I'm not mush of an ocean guy, but I could learn I guess.