Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Here is what it is all about, believe me, I am telling the truth!!!
Just look at the Grow Bed below.
When eating the salad last night I cared not one hoot about the nitrate levels or the ph or if the pipes were stuck together with blue glue........aahhhhhh .... I can't wait for the tomatoes.......then I will really have become totally aware of the truth....

Muzza

Steve.....Symantecs??? Oh! You meant semantics.

AA.....while I haven't been keeping fish for very long, I've been researching aquaponics since the days of its modern revival in the 1970's and I've been doing hydroponics and general livestock husbandry (in a backyard context) since you were born. I think I can follow most reasoned arguments and, where I'm on thin ice, I have the sense to ask.

It's a good thread......one can't help but learn at this level.

Congratulations, Murray. It's looking great! Put me down for a grow bed.

Is the delivery time still about a fortnight? If possible, I'd like to take delivery when we get together on the 29th.

AA and I are just here to hash out small differences. The rest of you may be seeking absolute truth or absolute horse pucky...but CLEARLY some of you are seeking absolute SALAD.

Same difference - its all a study of different meanings

Ex-celeb, i'm intrigued, please elaborate...

BTW mate - I'm not exactly sure how firmly your tongue is planted in your cheek here, but this is a public forum so you should probably expect that others are going to chime in if/where we think it is appropriate... Please feel free to enlighten us n00bs if our input is incorrect or misguided or off-topic or whatever, but please don't discourage us from participating. Thanks for the interesting discussion topic, and sorry if I have missed the joke.

Simmo and others - that was completely tongue in cheek to expose those in my thread merely to argue or talk bollocks.

We all sidetrack, I know, but my invite to Michael to talk Aqua turned into a freakin philosophy board.

And your curiosity - I was an up coming comedian and award winning writer but I gave it away to study Aquaponics for the record.

I do not regret this at all I was sick of serving only myself though I did create employment and even careers for several of my peers.

Now Mike - "I know you disagree, but I’m presenting some tangible evidence here that is backing it up." - I don't disagree, I like this, tangible evidence is what i like best, not someone's theory based on someones reading something....

We weren't onto aeration though, so your figures for air are more a sidetrack than an issue to debate my figures for nutrient delivery. Though they're extremely helpful figures to have lying around please retain this info.

Though there's so many things to consider in tightening the nuts on this beast, it's easy to digress.

Gary, like I've said, I totally respect your input. My business plan (small scale systems) is nearly due for first vetting (2-3) weeks and I'd still appreciate your critique a great deal.

I was also getting at the 'cut 'n' pasters' who like to quote things they've read and not actually done as some kind of truth.

I've wanted a discussion with folk who can talk this language properly for a long time. So please, let us go for it, add in with your own personal experience or study and stop quoting me 'the book'. Ive read it, read it again, and again, I even have a list of every grammatical error in the book for editing. I recommend 'the book'. Would like to sell it on behalf in NZ via links to me at some stage.

Now - Aquaponics - what is a saleable point about this.

- Pollution Reduction
- Water reduction
- Organic produce
- Time reclamation (no more cleaning the damn pond!)
- Novelty value
- Mercury Free Fish (with correct diet)
- Family Provision
- Lifestyle units

And more, it's early days.

Say I sell small systems, and have a yard dedicated to medium system research. Then I could sell, small systems, information packages, bugs in a bottle, starter water once I get a big tank to cycle... Produce, fish, hell, I got loads of ways to make money off this and haven't let anyone in the yard yet.

We're only limited by imagination and knowledge and ability to use said knowledge by the user, and gravity damn you!

The only reason folk can't sell aqua is - they can't sell.

Sales involves research and insight into customers. Convince them they need what you have and there will be a line.

Sick of the doom merchants who don't take risks too, how truly boring it all must seem from those eyes, this is the way we do it, baaaaaa!

Good on ya, I don't want to make a better version of nearly everything I own, but with aquaponics I do. And theres MASSIVE areas of research uncovered thank you.

I think you've done a fantastic job Murray, high end beds and soon tanks, top notch. It isn't the be all and end all, it's your product. A very nice one I might.

Back to Mike

DWC. This is interesting you think it's not so feasible. I had considered it too elaborate a set-up for most situations but there's certainly room to utilise water culture (floating raft) as secondary filtration for the sturgeon like (finicky) species we seem to be attracted to as discussed.

Also, when looking at things like joels tomato it makes sense to me to set up some large DWC satellite containers with indeterminate species in them and see just how far you can push it with them. I'm thinking 100 litre (half barrel) planters. I'd prefer a planter after a bed - or else with solids you need a lot more circulation or temps kept in check all year. (too expensive to run a larger system)

A circulation as low as 4 times per hour will grow effective DWC with adequate oxygen. Again, a noob would fall flat on their face you've got to make these things so they do half the pumps work themselves, can be moved or accessed to stop roots clogging overflow, and you should be well on your way to growing tree like vegetable plants incl chillies toms capsicums and eggplant.

I also recommend cichlids etc to beginners, but I'm going trout and then salmon even. And don't think marine is sacred, I will crack that in future and folks have already got into it.

Today I build two continuous flow beds that flow out through two floating raft beds. Next I'll make beds to DWC containers. And we can watch em close.

The beds will get 4 times per hour turnover so due to gravel displacement, the floating raft will only get 2 times. And the game commences!

I tried to edit my obnoxiousness out of the previous post.

And hopefully back on topic.

I'm beginning to agree with you after reviewing those figures and mine.

Big requires a bigger kickstart, it is a curve, rather than a line. Small, and I'd now class this anything up to 1000 litres, is much easier to tame and we have more reference points.

We need a medium class too, 1000 litres to ? - defining where BIG starts.

Small systems. I understand you think this is a lot of pissing round but I have several things I'm trying to achieve with these.

So many folk are so pressed for space the only hope they'll ever have of Aquaponics is an Aquarium sized system. Why not just an aquarium?

Water consumption. Pollution. The only garden they'll likely have. Fresh herbs to cook with right there. Fish health. Made correctly you can run the sweetest water, just stock low and plant wisely. Time. Some people's time is worth a fortune. They can't be bothered testing and changing and cleaning... Well designed Aquariums will give many executives who've abandoned their aquarium hobby a chance to return to it without losing all that maintenance time.

I could add to that list if I pondered it.

And why? for me?

Low set-up costs. Got to start somewhere. Easy construction and installation. Easy cartage. Easy to put in stores on display.

Means to an end.

Gives fishowners the option of doing it clean.

Specialised breeding programmes like the Giant's and my Bandeds. If individuals can actively contribute to replenishing fisheries and saving endangered species by posessing rare fish, they will.

Who thinks their Govt will save the fish?

AA - this is certainly thought provoking and enjoying enormously the input from all members

toldya it was gonna be bigger than religion

I'll bit my tongue and just say this post is a wealth of invaluable information. It is a great comparison between two peoples views in two completely different climates. I printed mine out and grabbed a coldy to read it. Its like a short novel. Sorry to interupt, but it is a good 8 hour gap between posts while each other sleeps. Continue Discussion...

Hi AA,



I think they are all saleable points. In a selling context, however, they are features and advantages. People buy based on the benefits (rather than features or advantages) that they perceive will accrue to them through the use of your service or product.

What will your product or service do for them? I was taught that, when it comes down to brass tacks, people only buy two things......good feelings and solutions to problems. Psychologists suggest that, in the end, all buying decisions come down to one thing......solutions to problems.

What's the unmet need that your product satisfies?

Once you've resolved that question and you've done enough market testing to confirm that you have the right answer, you have to separate yourself from the pack.

As the market becomes crowded with people selling Aquaponics, they'll all be saying the same things and claiming the same features and advantages.

The key question then becomes......"What is the one meaningful difference that you offer that would cause prospective customers to choose your product or service over all of the others?" In business circles, this is referred to as the "unique selling proposition".......or the "sustainable competitive advantage."

If you don't have a clearly defined point of difference (and there is more than one party offering the product or service), you have a commodity....and commodity trading is a game where the lowest price wins.

AA....I look forward to having the opportunity to look at your business plan.

I'd be entirely happy if one of our site moderators wants to cart this post off to a more suitable spot where we can deal with business questions.

I think this business post fits ok. Part of the thread is looking at why? small systems, and finances are a crucial aspect of why? any sized system when interested in the AP business (and the many aspects one could employ in it)

I'm looking at USP's. In NZ, The very nature of AP is a USP. Nobody's heard of Aquaponics unless they're industry, and then very few.

Then it can also be a game of, who's ahead of the game. Then there's credibility, word of mouth. Who you know. And just damn good service.

A usp logo

I kill less fish than the next guy haha (because I own less)

I'm looking forward to your feedback on the marketing aspect too. (that was it honest hehe)

I plan to start very small. Due to small financial startup. I think of this as an advantage to the consumer. I won't be wasting my time trying to justify spending the money, I'll be spending my time trying not to waste the money. A crucial part of development will be finding the right team to help. I'll take my time, I've got the time.

There are a lot of bad business people around. It is not hard to outwit many competitors. A lot of competition is not interested in continuous R&D they find a cash cow and sit on it. I have no problem with them doing that .

There also exists in todays marketplace a mentality where folk work together rather than in competition with each other. This I will nurture and develop with every industry I transact with as best I can being my obnoxious self. Eventually as industries grow folk forge industry principle and practise, through the formation of organisations like registered master builders, etc. I hope to lead a good example and let the public choose what they want here. All's fair, even working hard and playing fair.

In terms of marketing, Gary I think you have identified the distinction between business success and failure and have hit a nail on the head, as well as some other points. It's easy to get carried away in discussion (which is what I like personally) but let me bring us back a little bit back to center if you will allow me. What is happening in AP right now is several small system operators out on the Internet (not speaking of anyone on this forum) who are using the small amount of knowledge gained in small systems to engineer and consult on large systems, and there has been a fair amount of failure because of it, as well as some poppy *butterflies*. With ALL due respect to the founder of this forum and his written results, that is ONE system. It is not MY system, and it's not even close to some others'. What Joel did is admirable because he took the time to record it, and for that reason he should be compensated. WE (You, AA, EB, Tim, EB, Simmo, AM, Murray, DD, Steve, Beeso, and anyone else who comes to this forum to gain and share knowledge) have an opportunity greater than 10 years ago when AP was basically just hitting the Internet. Sure AP has been around, but the age of information has taken AP to another level the Day S&S appeared on the Internet when many more people started to play with it. The old forum was hopelesly low tech and full of non AP folks who muddled up the posts. Whether you've been doing it 10 years or 10 weeks, there's going to be applied differences and therefore varied results and new information. The difference with this thread is I hope is we can start laying down some real results.

AA said


DWC is feasable, just think it's more reasonably used as a secondary bed or filter, like you metnioned as a satellite tank Mine is set up as a raft covering my sump tank. The problem I am having right now is the lettuce roots are being eaten by the 100+ Tilapia fingerlings in the sump tank bacause I can't rig an automatic feeder (yet). So much to do so little time. I'm starting to see the huge capital requirement AA on the Sturgeon. Sorry I get carried away sometimes.




This is pretty much what I am doing, I'll post results when the fish get moved to the stock tank.



I'm with ya. I gave up square tanks years ago. Although in DWC, as long as the bed is long and narrow you can just run the flow one way down the middle. My beds are long and narrow. My raft is in a 5 foot wide circular tank. Water circulates at 1,200 liters per hour max!



You know... it was well after my system was up and running a good healthy bio factory that I even stuck the float on the sump tank thinking only in a well established system would the DWC (and let me clarify that this is simply NFT - same thing) method work. Maybe doesn't matter, but I think it would be hard to start until system was saturated with nutrients.



Kelp and ........ Starfish???



Game on;)

re system size just thinking of a "natural swimming pool" that i saw on our permaculture tour of crystal waters. It had a reed and waterplant filter bed before going back into the main pool and just the fish that naturally found their way in yabbies ect. However i was thinking of a concrete inground pool with low stocking density and high circulation hooked into growbeds as filters gives you a third string to your bow. In winter you can up the density and food production if you like.... I'll be buying a house next year and now an ingound pool will be something i look for... maybe a conversion business may also be a possibility