Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

I agree that a new system trying to run a side by side test would not be a very good indication of how things would do.

The big problem with many of these sorts of tests, is that they would only show the yield that particular person would get from the two methods. I know some people who get huge yields off tomatoes in dirt while my dirt tomatoes have always been a bit poor (nematodes are a problem in our dirt.) My AP tomatoes have been great. As to spindly, well that can happen when people prune heavily but then it leaves more space to grow other things below the tomatoes provided the tomato roots haven't taken over. There are other things that I can grow great in compost/soil but struggle and die in the AP system and that is totally due to the system being new and having a rather high pH for certain plants.

The other challenges making side by side testing tricky is that it can rarely be "side by side" then how do you make all other things equal? Does the dirt plant get automatic irrigation with fertilizer? Does the dirt plant get sprayed for pests? How equal is that?
Are we comparing chemical dirt gardening to AP or are we comparing organic dirt gardening to AP? How many years has the soil been being built for the dirt test? How many years has the AP system gotten to mature? What sort of irrigation does the soil get? What sort of AP system is it (flood and drain, continuous flood, DWC, trickle?) We don't even have a definitive as to what the best AP set up is yet.

As to the wasted space. I suppose one might see a space under a grow bed as wasted just because they can see under the grow bed. This space should be storage or for compost or for critters, or even for more fish tanks or duckweed tanks or buckets or whatever. I guess that space is really wasted in the dirt garden though since you can't use the space under the planting bed at all. What if the grow bed were sitting on the ground, would it still seem there is wasted space?

+1

First, thanks for all the replies so far!

Now, now, now... let me assure you all that there's no thin skinned whiner here, so fire away.

To expand upon my thoughts, there's two ways that i see making some type of living off aquaponics.

The first is to get a bunch of venture capital money and build a hugely intensive system full with O2 injections and whazzis-ma-gadgets and grow fish and come crop more cheaply than anyone else can. Unfortunatley, the internet is chock full of dead websites, bad links and stories of crying investors.

The second is to make things as efficient as possible. The goal is to grow things more cheaply than some third world bumpkins who has no "real" environmental laws to worry about, no vigilent eyes watching over his shoulder for banned anitbiotic or pesticide use, and who is willing to work for pennies a day. One of the ways to do that is to get as much produce per square foot as possible.

Here in the US, and i suspect much the same in any developed country, we're flooded with regulations and the fees that go along with supporting the "inspectors" that chip away at any hope of making a go at a business. In addition, i live in New England in the US where winter temps can drop to -20 F, and along with everything else there's the heating costs that go along with the greenghouse. Might be fine for South Africa to double the size of a GH, but with the cost of fuel, who can heat it? So every square inch counts in my humble opinion.

I don't plan on starting off with a commercial system. I want to play a bit and see what can be done. I am planning to push the limits though. I think that as most of you seem to be pretty creative (and i won't say who i think the odd duck out is... *grin*) so i think you'll agree that there lots of room to change things. I happen to be egotistical enough to believe that i can come up with some new ideas (or at least steal some of yours and claim them for my own... *G*), creative enough to make them work and irreverant enough to try some things that people don't think can be done. You all seem to have some of that or you wouldn't be here...

Yes, i do plan on posting whaever i can figure out here. Have no doubt about that. My one major personnality fault ( besides my excessive humility, dashing good looks, exceptionally charming personnality, turbo-charged brainpower, sickeningly filthy large bank account and rapier wit) is i have not one iota of organization power. None. So i do try to rely on data others have published. Hopefully you had not taken that as a personnal tongue lashing that you have failed me - though i would certainly like you all much better if you could sit down and document that data please. I tend to do 90% of my work in my head and, suffering from multiple personality disorder, i spend way too much time arguing with myself when i should be getting work done.

Seriously, in case you thought i WAS serious, i did like the thought of under bed cages and "chooks", at least for a system to grow my own food, but if i want to go beyond that, i'm not sure it would be the best idea.

So again, thanks for the comments so far. It's all good!

Poppa

My 2c Poppa....

The footprint required for AP - with which you can raise enough to feed a family completely - enables it all to go under greenhouse. I have acres of land ......but some very appreciative monkeys that keep me on their regular circuit when foraging for food. I want lock-up. AP is perfect.

"Wasted" space under GBs....
If there is enough light - such as raised plastic moulded beds - then simple shade loving plants in soil is one idea. Or earthworm pit....
If too little light such as with raised ferrocement beds..... then mushrooms... a nice little paying sideline too. Especially if get a few varieties.

"wasted space"=insect repellent plants-marigold etc or earthworm pits

Theres a lot of wasted space under the dirt garden as well.

I've researched the UVI system because part of my system will be DWC with rotational cropping, same as theirs. In their material, the article you quoted, UVI uses seedings to plant into their systems- for both dirt and AP. It does not state how old the seedlings are at transplanting or how the seedlings are grown- soil mix or hydroponically but I'm assuming the later. If I'm able to contact them directly at the other AP chatroom and find out, I'll post it for you. In my greenhouse books and on other web sites, I read that plants will store nutrients, greater than what they require, in the early stages of their life and utilize those if they have a deficiency later on. If you can recall, in the AP batch cropping of basil, the nutrients were depleted and the plants suffered, making later croppings unmarketable. They also mentioned that the seedling transplants had setbacks in growth until they adapted and seriously, even these trials may be inaccurate, due to the fact that this is a tropical area- the soil plants may have suffered from the heat and humidity while the AP plants were cooler being immersed in water.

In regards to the second part of your question, I've been toying with the idea of a triple-decker greenhouse system but probably not what you have in mind, although in your climate, it might be something that you could adapt to your situation.
This is something that I cannot build in my current situation and probably would not be allowed in California at all but this is the basic design.
Ground level- regular greenhouse
Below ground level- farrow to finish hog production farm, a CAFO- I'll know I'll get flack for this one
2nd below ground level- hog waste capture that drains to a methane bio-digester
The greenhouse is for fodder for the hogs below, although, this could be adapted for AP. The greenhouse floor would be sealed but with plexiglass areas for sunshine to reach the hog level and air would be forced circulated between the two levels but first ran through a wet bio filter to remove methane gas. The plants would benefit from CO2 and the body heat rising from the pigs below. The pigs would benefit from fresh fodder and in a more stable year-round temperature as pigs can't sweat and they also need insulation to keep warm during winter months. The pigs floor would have slats to remove waste and if necessary, water hoses to flush it down. The lowest level would be v-shaped with water nozzles to direct the waste down to the bio-filter- the methane can be used to keep the filter operational and suppliment heat and/or possibly electricity in the building.
As far as sleeping/resting comfort for the pigs, I would find a solution similar to the dairy industry. I once did taxes for a man who was building his business building giant water-proof pillows (I kid you not) for dairy cows to rest on- the dairy industry spends huge amounts of money on straw and then has to deal with the sloppy mess once it is discarded- this is cleaner and reusable. I'm sure that something similar can be developed for pigs but it would also almost have to indistructable as pigs have PSI bites in their jaws, comparable to sharks and pigs are more intelligent than dogs so would have to be entertained or trained not to destroy them- I once saw a news show where the farmer had all of his pigs (roughly 30 or more) trained to wait while he filled their food trough and prayed. When he said, "Amen", the pigs would rush in to eat- much safer for the farmer, I would think and if you doubt a pig's intelligence, watch "Green Acres", the piglet(s) they use is a weanling.
Anyway, it sounds good on paper and the CAFO pigs would not stink up the neigborhood like they do in North Carolina. I think this design could possibly also be used for dairy cattle to a certain extent but I don't think you could confine a herd underground, it would have to be modified for them.