Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

I'm afraid I don't agree with this bit, as I tried to explain here:
viewtopic.php?p=151915#p151915

I'm happy to take up the discussion there if you'd like

Thanks Steem...

Owww so much discussion while I was away! thanks Rupert, hygicell, TCL and steem for your input, those posts gave me different points of view and ideas for manipulating the amount of water, the distribution, number of fish or plants in their given situation and the system setup possibilities.

But we can't really make any real absolutes can we? I mean there are too many facters - amount of fish (and amount that we feed them) to amount of bacteria for each form of N and the amount of plants with their own nutrient needs, then there's the amount of topping up water/rainwater, weather intervention to the type of system set up. And some of the above takes time to grow so each part grows at different points.

I guess I can only dream of being able to setup the best system no matter what the right place is at any given time.

That is part of what I'm trying to outline Jensilaedi... and the original intention of TCLs post...

Follow/duplicate the basic design and operation principles... and it IS easy... and totally reproducable.... time and time again....

Decide on the size of fish tank you want/can get.... make sure that you have at least the same volume capacity of growbeds....

Either gravity drain back to your fish tank (involves raising the growbeds, or digging in the tank......

Or run a sump arrangement, with two pumps and a timer... or if you prefer a single pump, then opt for a "chift pist" setup....

Stock at 3kg/100L of fish...

Don't overfeed... especially initially...

Test frequently during cycling... and whenever something "seems" wrong....

Have a backup aeration device and/or pumps available....

Seek help on the forum if need be....

Other than that... watch your fish and plants grow.... once balanced the system will pretty much take care of itself....

If you really feel the need.... you can experiment with your second system....

thanks Jensilaedi for trying to smooth out the creases
I am only suggesting possible solutions
my defending them is often misinterpreted as imposing my ideas which is not my intention

must be a language problem or one of differing discussion traditions
sorry for that

I have no intention of hijacking anyone's thread
just adding my (hopefully valuable) two (euro)cents

I do have an inclination of thinking outside the lines
it has often led to surprising constatations
which then of course must be subjected to a critical approach
in order to be either validated or rejected

so thanks to all who give me strong opposition
as long as they open their minds
the outcome can only be positive

frank

get to the point Frank........The point on the thread

the point lol.... there are actually several viewpoints on this ratio question so... there isn't an actual point but several!!!

Anyway, this isn't my thread but hijack as long as it still relates to the topic and as far as i've read, everything that everybody's stated relates.

Rupert I dont mean to be argumentative but..


....that's a lot of vagues... how do I know I'm not overfeeding, what is wrong, or if I even need help apart from discovering the "known" and "common" problems PROVIDED that either the fish or plants aren't dead already!

My dream is to come up with a system that doesn't require any electricity, is put togetherable... as in click together and add this, then you're set kind of system... so you might start with one 500L Fishtank and one 500L GB and then you buy another one of those and click them into the system you already have ...

ok... Rant over, steam let out... I'm kinda trying to get the same thing but I don't think it's gonna be easy to make it a 1, 2, 3 tada!

EB's systems are amazing and insightful and really workable, but being the freedomfighter that I am, I prefer to be able to put things together myself.. and think that AP should be as easy to setup and close to the price as it is to make a irrigation system for your lawn!!

Besides that, I'm also working out ways to somehow carry water up at least a metre without using electricity from the house, solar or even wind turbines. I've thought about using the watermill, then pulley type machination to somehow make a simple wheel bucket carrying system. This will take a lot of water, so to me, the ratio of FT:GB is important

I like that you said you like to put things together for yourself so you understand, but having said that, it is difficult to give you a plug and play system since we don't know which plug together parts you are gonna pick.

I also don't think that creating a perfectly formulated instruction tends to work since there are always variables that can pop up which one needs to pay attention. The perfectly formulated instructions might work fine if nothing ever goes wrong but most of us experience something going wrong at some point in time or another. Like forgetting to plug the pump back in after maintinance or a plug getting pulled out. Or a pipe getting knocked loose or something getting clogged. Then there are nutrient deficiencies, some people never have to add anything extra because their media and water supply seem to cover all the bases while other people need to add Iron and Potassium regularly. Many of these things are why questions are so often answered with questions. Like, do I need to age my water? Do you have city water or well water? If city water, is it chlorine or chloramine? And so on.

But back to Ratio's and Sump tanks.

If trying to run a system on non electric energy, one probably wants and even bigger sump and header tank so that when the wind is going good, you can stock up on potential energy and when it goes too long without then the human can use the bucket.

Deciding how much grow bed compared to fish tank one needs is based mostly on fish load/stocking density of the fish tanks. If stocking density is light, then there is not need for large amounts of grow beds. If stocking is going to be heavy then filtration (growbeds) will need to be increased, as this happens some means of protecting the fish from the water level fluctuations becomes necessary.

Everyone keep in mind that this discussion is primarily about systems with flood and drain media beds. There are other methods out there but I believe they deserve their own threads as the methods and key points are different enough that mingling them tends to cause confusion.

Not quite sure which bits you find "vague"...

What I'm suggesting is that you follow the basic formulas, including growbed:fish tank volumes... known working/workable system configurations... in terms of general design...

Pump sizes, pump choice, layout, energy supply ... is all up to you as you may wish it...

I'm just saying that if you work within the basic proven principles then you'll minimise any potential problems....

Joels systems work so well .... because they have been refined down to the basics... and they're as "set & forget" as possible....

Duplicate the same principles... within your own design components... and you'll hopefully acheive the same low maintenance AP system...

Anything you're unsure of... or is outside of those basics... ask the question...

The more you step outside the "basics" ... the greater the potential to compromise the "set & forget" principle you want to start with IMO...

I believe building a simple... "standard" system... within the parameters allows anyone to acheive a workable system, while gathering knowledge that sometimes only hands on experience can teach...

Experience that can be applied when it comes time to build your second system... and experiment...

If anyone wants to approach AP from an experimantal perspective... fine...

Nothing stopping anyone at all... just a decision as to what way you want to go... and what will give you the greatest pleasure....

Conquering the odds and surmounting the "unknowns"... or eating fish and veges without any real effort...

Don't get me wrong... it didn't take me long to start thinking about "other ways" of doing things... to be honest... I hadn't even finished my first system....

But I learnt things from the first simple system that have highlighted and perhaps prevented me from making some fundamental mistakes with the second... or altered, even if in small ways, my initial concepts for the next system...

In the mean time ... I've got more salad & veges than I know what to do with... and I luv feeding my fish....

Totally agree TCL.... all ideas are worthwhile and worth discussion...

But as you say... perhaps better confined within their own dedicated threads... the forum is now so large that it is difficult for new arrivals to gather information susscinctly...

I would point out that fish numbers are irrelevant it is fish mass plus fish activity.
Bacterial activity is based on surface area food and the ones we want DO. Assuming food and DO is there you then are left with surface area which to a bacteria is anything. Size and texture all make a difference.

Steem
1 goldfish in 10K would not be the same as in a small tank. You make the assumption that there is no other life in an AP system.

To suggest anything other than F&D, is likely to get you stoned or at least pebbled

at the risk of getting

actually it all starts with fish feed
all the rest is transformation

frank

Thats right - instead of the forumula of 3kg of fish per 100l of growbed, you could have say, 300g of fish food per day, per 100l of bed (or wtf it is )

True... but I had a goldfish system, and I didn't feed them at all... and my plants thrived... so there's a certain amount of ammonia produced, with or without food.

that's prolly coz they ate each other!!