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PostPosted: Nov 21st, '08, 22:55 
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What is Aquaponics with rabbits, earthworms and hens called?... :D

Because lock up is important for me I have integrated them at night. But also because of the iron benefit from the hens to the plants via the fish ............and the rabbit droppings to the earthworms... But they will spend the day in tractors scratching for grubs (hens) and nibbling my lawn short (rabbits).

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DREAM CHIFT PIST FINAL ... I THINK! (Small).jpg
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A single huge growbed with one quad flout......

Flout feeds into Flow form to oxygenate the water and prevent tsunami hitting the water.
Flow form will be made of fibreglass over wire shaping so that it is light enough to remove.

Henhouse over Fish Pond is 2mx2m which will take 8 hens and 1 cockerel comfortably overnight. Each Fish Pond will have one although only drew in one........
Henhouse will have Flattened Expanded Mesh Base inserted into Angle Iron but top will be PVC and plastic or chicken mesh and removeable. Only heavy part to remove when I want to harvest the fish will be the base..... but want that strong. It will rest on 4 poles built into the walling.

Rabbits... same sort of thing.
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This angle shows the Rabbit condo over the Earthworm pit more easily. There will be access to each "box" to get rabbits into tractors during the day. Just throw a plank across the earthworm pit for the other side. Will hold only female French Angoras in this "condo". When no males they are not territorial and very social creatures. One unit will have only males. Made of expanded mesh and reinforced wood. Where floors are wood I will put grass for comfort and just throw out to earthworm pit and replenish as needed. There is a ramp to the second level.

Slope of 10 degrees 31' is showing. Seem to have got that right in the design now.

Can sort of see the removeable baskets I will hang from the sides in places. Half fill with PVC waste piping for the babies to hide with water plants on top. (Really only for those babies I miss when getting them into a separate tank) Removeable so that can use the "gate" resting along the side when time to harvest the fish at a certain size. Everything will be made as light as possible and removeable for this reason. Don't want to struggle with harvesting.

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01 DREAM CHIFT PIST 03 (Small).jpg
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Can see the ramp in the Rabbit condo more easily and the "door" at the side of the earthworm pit that opens as a table to process earthworm castings.

Slope seen again. Going to be a lot of landfill! Pity too much rock to build Fish Pond and Earthworm pit down. Will have to hire a TLB again one day. Just dig where I want a "lake" one day.

Haven't shown the sump and top tank... but still part of the design.

Have no idea how long it will take to build but who cares! :D Each unit will be great as it finishes.... and learn along the way. I will just keep at it a bit each day until done. Strange thing is I can go further this way than all plastic because I only buy in cement. I guess I will be pretty fit when it is done.... :D :drunken:

First stage is the sump which I will use for fish until a unit is built. Also want to play around with building a flout. Very important I get that right. Will use SLO's from Fish Pond to GB. Maybe 4. Also have overflows.

I would really appreciate anyone who can see flaws in design ..... or expect I may have trouble with something...... to point it out to me. I hope to start quite soon. Been practicing my building skills on smaller projects and getting better all the time. I have 2 friends who know about building pointing out my mistakes.... all gearing up to this project that I really have my heart set on.


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PostPosted: Nov 22nd, '08, 00:12 
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polyculture?

With all that poo coming in from the yard animals I bet the grow beds could be twice as large.


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PostPosted: Nov 22nd, '08, 02:07 
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You think? The Fish Pond is 13,500 litres and the GB is 12,700 litres without grow media. Almost 1:1
I would love to have more but so careful to keep my slope as accurate as possible. :drunken: Appreciate the input DD. Will look to see if possible. :D

Only hens at night. Rabbits are over the earthworms... could use the worm castings only as a back-up if need more nutrients. Thought to build this in for more control. For the rabbits it is more a case of keeping the rabbits safe at night in lock-up so put them over the earthworms.

Depth of GB is 500 mm so can grow trees too.... thought of using the different levels for different plants like in permiculture... sort of. That might need lots of nutrients. Speciality stuff like kiwi so that monkeys don't get it. Also vanilla orchid. There would be a good market for them both.


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PostPosted: Nov 22nd, '08, 03:18 
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Could you have the worm tea drain into the pond? More nutrients for the plants. You may also have something to help the rabbit ammonia get through the worms to the GBs.


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PostPosted: Nov 22nd, '08, 04:48 
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Looks interesting. Have you go a small test run going. Something to play with and then seed the larger system when its built.


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PostPosted: Nov 22nd, '08, 14:01 
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greenedo wrote:
Could you have the worm tea drain into the pond? More nutrients for the plants. You may also have something to help the rabbit ammonia get through the worms to the GBs.


I wondered if the worm tea would colour the water ugly.. ? I will try it when it is up and running. I agree ... seems a waste not to use it. :D


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PostPosted: Nov 22nd, '08, 14:15 
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Dufflight wrote:
Looks interesting. Have you go a small test run going. Something to play with and then seed the larger system when its built.


Only thing I got up and running is a Pond with fish and plants in it at this stage. Is very stable and the fish are healthy... well... those that survive a predatory cormorant! Lost fingerlings really quickly. Need a net... but an expense I don't want for an old reservoir that leaks. Going to chuck in some more thngs for them to hide in. Putting everything I have extra at the moment into cement.

I have set up a small tank inside with pond water and am encouraging some algae bloom to transfer some tiddlers. Is a spare room and I realised I could easily do something here to keep things safe from the wildlife until I have stuff built and under GH. Small but up close to the window for sun. Want to see how my grow media influences pH.


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PostPosted: Nov 22nd, '08, 14:20 
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Cyara wrote:
I wondered if the worm tea would colour the water ugly.. ? I will try it when it is up and running. I agree ... seems a waste not to use it. :D


If its anything like seasol it clears up pretty quickly. Couple of days.


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PostPosted: Nov 22nd, '08, 16:10 
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Thanks OBO. Then it's a definite. Will feed it into the system too. :D


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PostPosted: Nov 22nd, '08, 17:05 
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Cyara wrote:
Only thing I got up and running is a Pond with fish and plants in it at this stage. Is very stable and the fish are healthy... well... those that survive a predatory cormorant! Lost fingerlings really quickly. Need a net... but an expense I don't want for an old reservoir that leaks. Going to chuck in some more thngs for them to hide in. Putting everything I have extra at the moment into cement.

on cormorants:
http://www.cormorants.info/pdfs/CormorantFacts.PDF
http://www.cormorants.info/pdfs/ProtectingFishery.pdf
http://www.defra.gov.uk/rds/publication ... TAN_50.pdf

on habitat improvement:
http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/co ... 1445307.pd
and many other horribly interesting files on this site:
http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/su ... =1&lang=_e

Quote:
High Cost of Bird Predation

Bird predation on fish farms can be a major cause of mortality of the farmed fish stock (including crustaceans such as marron and yabbies). The major predator in W.A. is the cormorant (shag) but a number of other birds, such as herons, egrets, kookaburras, kingfishers, ibis and grebes (dabchicks) also predate upon fish stocks. Recently butcher birds have been reportedly responsible for marron deaths during harvest operations. Of course all these birds are protected species under the Wildlife Conservation Act. the Department of Conservation and Land Management will issue licences to trap and remove offending birds (which usually return) and if necessary a shooting permit.

It may not be readily apparent that you have a costly problem if only a few of these birds are taking a few fish every day or so, but over the year these add up. And, unfortunately, cormorants are social birds which communicate new feeding grounds to others in their flock. Also most predation by cormorants occurs very early in the morning so that you may not be aware of the losses until harvest. One visual indication of cormorant predation in marron or yabby ponds is the scattering of gastroliths (the calcium store) around posts and other suitable perches. A recent paper by Rowland highlights this problem of predator increase for silver perch farming. Late one month 6 black cormorants discovered a pond but by early the next month there were 41 visiting the same pond. It was calculated that this flock of 41 black cormorants could have consumed all the fish in that pond in 25 days. Rowland reported that the value of fish consumed in the experimental ponds was $A107 000 against a cost of overhead bird netting of $A25 000. From these values it is obvious that the netting more than pays for itself.

A marron farmer who had both covered and uncovered ponds recently discovered the benefits of covering with anti-bird netting. The ponds concerned contained 0+ (about 6 months old ) which had been stocked at the same rate and when drained the uncovered ponds yielded around 500 0+ while the covered yielded in excess of 8000 0+ - a considerable difference.

Using a combination of Rowlands paper and papers on marron production (Morrissy) it can easily be worked out what the potential losses could be for marron farms. If a 1000m2 pond was stocked at 3/m2 (3000) and the average size was 10 g, one black cormorant would consume 50 - 100 marron in one day, an immediate dollar loss of around $25-$50 (commercial rate for 0+ is approx. 50 cents each), however the expected harvest of an average size of (100g) means that the marron eaten would have weighed 5-10kg with a value of around $150 - $300 (at $30/kg) which represents a considerable loss. This does not take into account stock that is damaged but not consumed and later dies. It is interesting to note that one black cormorant could consume all the marron in this pond in 30 - 60 days. The expected harvest from this pond would be around 250kg with a dollar value of around $7 500. Compare this potential loss with covering the pond which would cost approximately $2000 (variable depending on the situation).

There are a large number of other methods of stopping bird predation that have been researched or promoted in the past: electronic bird scarers, gas guns, strung parallel lines, falconry and strungup plastic birds of prey (scarecrows) but only complete enclosure with barrier netting, properly maintained, is 100% effective 100% of the time.

Anti-bird mesh is usually installed over the whole pond site of a fish farm at a height suitable to allow easy access of farm vehicles and machinery that are used in the day to day operation of the farm as well as for occasional pond maintenance. It is not recommended to cover ponds individually as it is generally more expensive as well as making access to ponds more difficult.

References

Conservation and Land Management. Hayman Road, Como

Morrissy N.M., Walker P., Moore W. Predictive equations for managing semi-intensive grow-out of a freshwater crayfish (marron), Cherax tenuimanus (Smith 1912) (Decapoda: Parastacidae), on a commercial farm. Aquaculture Research, 1995, 26, 71-80.

Rowland, Stuart J. 1995. Predation of Bidyanus bidyanus (Teraponidae) in Ponds by Cormorants. The Progressive Fish-Culturist 57:248-249, 1995.


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PostPosted: Nov 22nd, '08, 18:10 
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:D Thanks Frank. Need that GH for sure! Now adding cormorants to a growing list of predators... :drunken: Had another thought to use Sweet thorn branches in the pond so long .... the thorns are very long and sharp. I remember someone saying something about this some time ago. Going to give it a try. Is a lovely tree to grow anyway cos it weeps a delicious confectionary like toffee which is good to eat when the bark is cut into.

Liked this from your one site:
Quote:
Physical improvements Physical habitat improvements can provide refuges and spawning sites, as well as improving fish food production. A variety of materials can be used to create underwater reefs. These provide
valuable submerged fish habitat and refuges from predatory birds. Underwater reefs can deter birds, such as cormorants by interfering with the interaction between them and the fish. A well-designed reef should have both overhead shading and internal structures. Brushwood reefs can be made by tying bushes together and weighting them so they sink. In addition, faggot bundles and weighed logs can be utilised in a similar way. The type and location of the reef should meet the objectives for which they are built and avoid conflicts with other resource users. Reefs should also be appropriate for the water body.
I think in my AP set-up I want to try do something like this. Lower it in but not all the way to the bottom.... would interfere with the SLO functioning then.... but create different "reefs". Be really nice for the fish. Light-weight if possible and so easy to manage. Going to look at possibilities. They say to use natural products.... Maybe mulberry logs bound into a basket shape and filled with twigs bearing leaves still. A reef and a larder all in one! :D There are some trees growing where they will need to be cut down so can even use those.

This was also very interesting to me....
Quote:
The water quality within a fishery is important: it often determines the biological productivity of that water. Acidic water (pH less than 7) is normally less productive than alkaline water (pH greater than 7). Acidic water usually lacks certain essential chemical
constituents and, in particular, has lower levels of calcium. These chemicals are essential for the growth of many plants and the recycling of nutrients. Acidic waters rarely harbour
dense populations of aquatic creatures. If they do, then the creatures may be specialised for life in acidic environments. Most coarse fisheries are at their most productive when they are slightly alkaline, with a pH between 7.5 and 8.5.

And this!
Quote:
Another way of enriching a pool is to drain it so that it dries out over winter. The pond mud becomes oxidised in contact with air. When the pond is refilled, this mud releases nutrient salts to the water. This increases productivity.
Perhaps pond mud could be collected from a pond, dried and put into the GB...

A really fascinating read! Thank you so much... :flower:
I will get to the other sites too. :D


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PostPosted: Nov 22nd, '08, 22:51 
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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The earlier comment about grow bed capacity with the added animal wastes....
With a system running 1:1 grow bed to fish tank ratio, you can be fine if the fish load is kept low for the tank volume but as you add extra nutrients from other sources like chickens, rabbits/via worms etc, you need to keep an even closer eye on the water quality since it is like you are adding the load of the other livestock into your system even if it is only at night, you will have to keep a close eye on things to make sure you don't build up to a crash.

You might want to make sure any of those other animal waste streams that could be adding into the system have some method to stop or control how much you add and how much might instead go to the outside compost. Like a removable bottom to the roosting coop. This would require extra manual cleaning but would probably be a good idea until the system gets past initial cycling at least and whenever water quality shows signs of spiking.


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PostPosted: Nov 22nd, '08, 23:30 
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Yes. I agree with you TCL. It would have to be watched carefully.

No small set-up is going to teach me all that I will need to know with this system. It will be trial and - hopefully correction before - error.

The only other actual load is the hens at night. The other inputs are at will and by choice.

I will have extra water stored in the sump and top tank and figured if things spiked suddenly and dangerously I would use from the ponds to irrigate the garden and top up with this pre-conditioned water.... much as I did when raising Oscars in a tank. I would hope that not all tanks would have such a crisis together.

My fish do not grow so fast though so I am also concerned for the reverse... not enough nutrients ........so built in these other nutrient inputs.

I have lots of learning curves ahead but it is all going to be absolutely fantastic fun! :D
Appreciate your thoughts. Thanks. :flower:


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PostPosted: Nov 25th, '08, 20:09 
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2 of my Moringa seeds have broken soil! One yesterday and one today. :D :cheers:

Fish food... chicken food.... maybe rabbit food.... and me food! :D


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PostPosted: Dec 6th, '08, 13:49 
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2 useful sites to remember:

http://lava.lounge111.net/diy_float_switch.htm
http://lava.lounge111.net/diy_water_level_alarm.htm


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