Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

You may need the ball valves on the growbed feed lines... just to balance the inflow, so that the siphons break cleanly...

Hmm... all valid points (I don't know any better so I'm allowed to act all naieve and believe everything I read )

Here's an idea... I know its overkill probably but how about a t with a tap directing back into the tank AND taps on bed feed lines? That way I can manipulate both so that flow is juuust right on both beds and the pump isn't working against the pressure? (and the added benefit of being able to add another bed later )

Frank: Yeah, I read the specifications off the box but that was a long time ago so I could be well out with my information

Exactly what I was suggesting Imy...

reread my very first post on this thread:


as you suggest, Rupert, with a valve on the overflow,
is impossible if the orifices in the pipe to the growbeds are big (and they should be to avoid clogging). No water at all will flow through this valve.
it is only possible with a valve on the pipe to the growbeds.
putting the valve(s) where I suggest, on the pipe(s) to the growbed(s) is just as quick and easy and cheap as your suggestion since it uses exactly the same components only a different layout.
So why not do it the best -and simplest- way possible for the same price and effort?
This will further allow for adjustments of flow to each growbed (and adjustments for the siphons, as you suggest) whereas a valve on the return line will not.
I would not put a valve there at all: valves are expensive and this one should never be used.
But it will be tempting to use it, with almost inevitably energy waste as the only result.


I do,
and I'm shocked to hear that you don't in this day and era

putting the valve(s) at the spot I suggest will achieve the desired result without any loss of pump efficiency: all energy not used for pumping water to the growbeds will be converted into aeration, which is what we both suggest.

That also is only possible with the valve(s) on the spot I indicate. Where you locate it, you will force all flow to the growbeds if you close the valve and make connection of extra growbeds only more difficult.
Anyway, this is not very relevant because adding more growbeds if well prepared will need only 10 to 15 minutes of stopping the pump while making the extra connections.
So why not do it the best way possible?

we don't know that yet: Imy has to check.


could it be that you underrate me a bit, Rupert?

both our suggestions have one flaw: that is the possible - probable - returning of some of the settlable solids to the fish tank. We don't want that.
That is why I have made the following little drawing which should solve it all:
it involves a small header tank to slow the water down and allow these solids to drop down and be sucked to the growbeds rather than flow back to the fish tank through the overflow

one other suggestion, Imy: use (slightly) over dimensioned pipes all through the system, choose drain pipes (thin walled) instead of pressure pipes which will compensate the price difference of a bigger pipe, a bigger pipe is more rigid so you will need less supports

greetings

frank

ooops, forgot the view from the other side:
(the pipes are not supposed to be open-ended, and I didn't draw the holes in the pipes over the growbeds, and the hole in the header tank to the overflow as I now see. sometimes I am just too lazy )

frank

Nice pics Frank... gotta learn me that sketchup....

Essentially the same as I was suggesting Frank....I had forgottem that Imy was running long troughs... was thinking more like a row of barrels with siphons... ie....


Same principle though... allows adjustment of flow to the growbeds/trough...

The idea of an overflow tank/diversion back to the fish tank is (as usual) nice and neat Frank.... wondering about the possibilty of the overflow tank..."overflowing".... pipe size as always critical...

But here's a rough pic of what I meant as a way to "bleed" of some of the pump pressure.... with the added benefit of providing more aeration...


You can use the ball valve to both make major adjustments to flow to the growbeds (opening to increase flow to tank, lessening flow to growbeds... or viceversa)...

Or to increase flow/oxygenation to the tank... or expansion with more growbeds...

Use the ball valves on the growbed feed lines for minor adjustments of flow rate... to get the required inflow for siphon break... or drip/drain times...

Can't see that it "throttles" the pump back... obviously lossing energy/efficiency...you just run the pump flat out.. and adjust the valves/flows accordingly...

Wouldn't have thought there was any real degree of in-efficiency doing it this way... and it's cheap and easy....

I take your point about efficiencies Frank... truely do... just sometimes I opt for the cheap, easy, quick way of doing things... even if it does have a small negative effect on "optimal" efficiencies...

Now, now, no need to fight!

I'm getting a t-piece, tap and draining off the flow just after the pump. This will airate the tank a little more (and swirl around the gunk a little) even with out rainwater test run yeaterday I noticed sediment building up at the far end of the tank. This pipe will get rid of that.

Now onto the hard questions...
Is a CF system going to be adequate for my tommies over the summer in the hot house or will I have to shut off the return flow a little to allow the water to build up to a certain depth in a grow beds? At the moment, its comepletely draining.

No fight intended Imy.... ....

I'd be tempted to think that a continuous flow would keep the tomato roots and media wet enough...

That's the beauty of having the ball valves... you can adjust them if you need/want to...

Another good point about incorporating a valve/return line.... yep not only additional oxygenation... but you can alter the flow rate to increase the tank turnover... and sweep the solids as you suggest...

Continuous flow is all thats needed imy, I sometimes run my beds at full flood to germinate seeds, rest of the time its ok.

Thanks!

So, I'm hoping to get to the fish farm tonight after work and sus out the yabbie situation. I'm wondering, how long usually to cycle? I know its done when the tests say so... but generally how long will that take? I am hoping it will be ready for my tommie seedlings by the time they are big enough to plant out!

4-6 weeks... depending on temperature... and whether or not you "seed" your system...

Yikes, I'd better get onto it then!

Just dont push the ammonia level too high while trying to force a quick cycle.

Excess ammonia levels actually slow the bacteria down.

no fight intended here either, Imy
to me you are all a bunch of friends
that doesn't mean we can't discuss, can we?
after all our only intention is to explain why one setup could be better than another to your and everybody's benefit
I have found Rupert to be a hefty discusser on other threads before, but never abusive and I'm sure he thinks the same way about me (I hope)
just pointed out that I hadn't missed any points let alone the whole point as you suggested, Rupert
my suggestion to put a tee in the system with a return line came long before yours
as we both suggest the same that must be a good one
I have also found you to be a bit on the conservative side where pumps are concerned and a reticence in thinking along a new line of thought: you are not easily convinced that there might be a better way, which is good, but you often express your second thoughts as objections, not as a question
Now I have no problem whatsoever to admit that my experience with AP is limited: I had a big aquarium when I was a student, raised some crayfish
intermittently off and on (more off than on) for the last fifteen years on a hobby basis, had a test AP setup last year and that's about it.
So I bow to your experience on all fish and plant raising matters, Rupert
But I do know some about pumps and pipes.
I should, after 35 years of experience (gee, now I probably blow my chance for a romance with Imy ).
Take your reflection on the possibility of the header tank overflowing: that can obviously only be an issue if you under dimension the overflow pipe.

I read you are opting for Rupert's solution, Imy
that is perfectly alright with me
but if you do it for the sole purpose of getting the water in the fish tank to swirl and collect more solids, just realize that you can obtain the same effect by putting an elbow on the bottom of the return line in the setup I suggest, so I have adapted the drawing (remember that it is only meant as a schematic).
but what is the point of collecting more solids if you are going to pump the biggest part of them back into your tank? They will follow the easiest route.
Eliminating the solids as quickly as possible from your fish tank is essential as they are unhealthy for the fish and O2 gobblers at that, which will only require more aeration, so bringing them back to your fish tank must be an error.

have a good day

Frank

35 years?! OMG!



(Just kidding, beats my 6 years veggie gardening experience by a long shot)


Anyway, I'm going to go for the simple t fitting and tap option first... thats not to say I won't be trying the other option in the not too distant future... there are already whispers in the household of getting a deeper tank and hooking it in (someone's back must be feeling better and he's forgotten about digging in the first tank)... and with a deeper tank, I guess we're going to eventually need more grow beds which I'll learn to live with

I really need to get some water going through the beds and get the thing cycling. My workmate has gone away for a few days and has asked me to feed her goldies. I'm going to pinch her grubby filter wool and seed the tank

I'm still thinking of a yabbie only tank. I've been madly googling and doing searches for hints but people don't seem to have much success with farming them on a small scale.
First I was thinking of caging the yabbies in multiple cages and putting the males in the 120l drum (seperated) until they are needed for breeding.
I'm wondering if it would be okay to keep females together in the big tank with MILLIONS of bits of PVC yabbie homes, and just keeping two males for breeding (into the drum when their services aren't needed)

Any help and experience here would be much appreciated!