Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

I am not trying to convince you or anybody else, Dufflight and F&F,

Just adding my few cents
in trying to point out that energy efficiency cannot be fooled with, especially not with wishful thinking

Please stick to the ways you are used to if they give you confidence

you are free to ignore my suggestions

but if you do reply, please try to more precisely contradict what I write, so I have a chance to learn

friendly greetings

frank

hygicell - who is it that you are trying to convince then?
I don't understand why this is sooo important to you, to the point you
flame people
If we had had your staunch stands againts progress we may have missed out
on planes, trains and autos!

Air pumps are cheap and easy.

Water pumps are not so cheap, but easy to get.

Propeller pumps are not cheap and not easy to get - if at all (to our sizes)

stop fighting already damnit

Creatve1,

I have no intention to flame people:



how much friendlier and inviting can I express myself?



is exactly my point
please don't join those who have staunch stands against progress
you might (but I cannot guarantee this) miss out on a lot.

friendly greetings

frank

Ozzie,

only if you happily forget like most do that no airlift pump can work without some kind of blower

to make work and have a visual effect, maybe,
to perform efficiently, very hard if not as good as impossible
even for a very experienced engineer
refer to previous posts of all factors involved if you don't believe me:
I admit I will never master all of them, and certainly not all together.
Will you?

almost everywhere it is suggested that you can make your own airlift pump(s)
that is true: they are very easy to make
but will they be efficient?
I don't think so.


I am not fighting,
just defending my point of view
that should be accepted (if not appreciated) (more: if not appreciated AND fiercely defended)

please let's stay on topic (airlift pump height calculation) and not stray to philosophic matters

That is just a smoke screen to hide the real issue.

show me one (just one) efficient airlift pump/blower combination (flow@head, head@flow AND power consumption@said flow and head)
And I will not only change my mind, but publicly apologize.

let me even lower the margin and expectations:
show me one (just one) airlift pump/blower combination (flow@head, head@flow AND power consumption@said flow and head) with an efficiency of 15 % or more (@ whatever head)
And I will not only change my mind, but publicly apologize.

please contradict me with facts and figures, not with perceptions, emotions or philosophy
Until then I will stand my case
I will do so fiercely.

friendly greetings to all

Frank

This is going no where fast again and I can't be *frack* ed!

Sometimes "winning" can obsure the important issues.

Everyone who knows me here , knows I can be a stubborn SOB ,, but guys , this amount of pain ain't worth the victory.

Sometimes it's just easier to AGREE to DISAGREE and walk away,,, reminds me of my first marriage

There's more than enough facts and links for other's to make their owns minds up about the issue ,, so now it's just pointless.

My 25 cents worth.

hehe for once chappo I agree with you!

The aquafarm I'm getting my fish from is one of the largest in NSW. They run one air blower for there hatchery and fingerling tanks. For 3 months there power bill was $8. And out of all the tanks I saw while there I could see no water pumps moving water in any of there tanks, only large air stones the size of you arm. They use it so my guess someone worked out the fine details. How would you keep 100kl plus moving and aerated in a dozen different tanks for $8. Even when I tried to compare pumps in my pool I didn't put the water pump in a tube but it was on the top step, 10cm from the surface. When I get my air blower I'll post some pictures. But my guess from zero head the water displaced is greater with air lift. Above zero head the water pumps out perform. The added benifit of getting o2 into the water should be also taken into account in an AP system. Also a 1000lph pump has little effect in my 55kl pool. But one air blower with 10 air stones spread out over the whole area. I'll post results when I get them.

OK, I agree to disagree

greetings to all

Frank

Smiles Frank ,, see that didn't hurt a bit ( well not TOOO much).

Frank i look forward to seeing your system , anyone willing to put in such effort and research will surely have an excellent result ( and maybe a few things i can copy ).

Didn't hurt a bit, Chappo

I find that some people have a strange conception of a (technical) discussion:
they seem to look at it as if it is a race that one can lose.

while, like in a race, someone might be considered a winner at the outcome,
to my opinion there are no losers in a discussion over technical matters
If someone succeeds in convincing me that my initial viewpoint was partially or completely wrong,
I will cheer that person because he/she has opened my eyes and helped me learn

That TMHO can only be considered as winning too.

So to me, a fair though fierce (technical) discussion results in only winners.
There is no loser.

The only thing that strikes me as strange is that there are people who only read part of a thread or who only superficially read it,
and then insist on public judging of the character of one of the contributors based on this partial reading.

I have stayed patient and polite,
often tried to take the sting out whenever one arose
always stayed on topic and urged others to also do so,
even apologized for the fact that, as English is not my mother language, I might have used a wrong expression somewhere...

I have had to look up the word on Wikipedia to fully understand it's meaning:

Interesting.
I guess that would make me the "flamed", not the "flamer".

I know the dangers of the written word.
And of delayed discussion, which is what a written exchange of ideas is.

Delayed discussion and the written word often lead to misconception of the writer's state of mind.
And often lead to impulsive reactions.
It is very difficult to convey your state of mind in writing
as written words all too often seem to transmit some kind of finality.

body language, facial expression, gesticulation, which could all correct misinterpretation are not available
smilies can help a lot, but they too can be misinterpreted

even a closure like "friendly greetings", as sincere as it might be, can be misinterpreted, as shown in this discussion.

the question: "what do you (really) mean?" is asked far too little in written discussions, while it is very common in friendly man to man "confrontations".
we should more often pose it.

hope I haven't bored you with this

friendly greetings

frank

Add to that the ambiguous qualities within the English language and it's no wonder so many people get heated.maybe we should all learn German , it is a far more precise and exacting language.

Smiles and enjoy.

I have enough trouble with the ambiguity of Aussie (inglash)