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 Post subject: Re: Closing the loop
PostPosted: Aug 8th, '08, 18:44 
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Joined: Feb 26th, '08, 21:26
Posts: 224
Location: N.W. Arizona
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I do not waste energy. My grid consumption runs less than a kilowatt hour per day total, I generate about 17 kwh per day. I use a smaller bug zapper by flowtron that has a single 15 watt tube and circuit board controlled grid. I will put my "kilawatt" meter on it and let you know exactly what it draws per night. I get to many bugs for the fish to eat each night, so daily I scoop the surplus and floating parts off as a treat for the chickens. I rarely ever have to clean the pump suction strainer and usually it is a fallen leaf or twig. The pond while in the sun is clear enough to drink.


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 Post subject: Re: Closing the loop
PostPosted: Aug 13th, '08, 23:06 
A posting God
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Joined: Sep 4th, '07, 04:16
Posts: 2475
Location: Texas
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Location: Texas 75703
spiritrancho wrote:
Grey water from laundry has to many salts and phosphates to feed plants directly.


We use natural plant soaps. So I don't thinks its a problem. Commercial wetlands black water treatment systems do not seem to have a problem with build up either.

The way everything is going up in cost (about 30%), I have to do a lot of this just to offset rising cost..


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 Post subject: Re: Closing the loop
PostPosted: Aug 14th, '08, 21:40 
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Joined: Oct 11th, '07, 19:43
Posts: 6687
Gender: Male
Are you human?: Not at 3 am :(
Location: Kalgoorlie
My lawn loves my laundry outflow :cheers:


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 Post subject: Re: Closing the loop
PostPosted: Aug 14th, '08, 22:15 
My silverbeet loves my laundry outflow.... probably the phosphate.... :wink:

And my tomatoes don't seem to mind it either....


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 Post subject: Re: Closing the loop
PostPosted: Aug 14th, '08, 22:18 
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Joined: Aug 7th, '06, 20:07
Posts: 8293
Location: margaret river West Oz
Gender: Male
Location: Western Australia
our bananas and grapefruit love it to!


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 Post subject: Re: Closing the loop
PostPosted: Aug 15th, '08, 10:57 
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Joined: Mar 18th, '06, 09:41
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Location: Brisbane
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My kids seem to love the greywater. Buggers have ended up getting wet from the sprinkler a number of times :evil:


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 Post subject: Re: Closing the loop
PostPosted: Sep 18th, '08, 03:08 
Almost divorced
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Joined: Apr 6th, '07, 19:29
Posts: 1213
Location: SOUTH AFRICA
Gender: Female
Are you human?: yes
Location: Hartbeespoort. SOUTH AFRICA
Quote:
The cat tails will be fermented to produce alcohol for a generator and the car. The left over hi quality protein will be fed to worms, fish, and cows.


Hi DDM. Like your thinking.... :D

I have very much the same idea. I will be using Sweet Sorghum for alcohol distillation. Very high in sugar but grown in temperate climates. By-products besides the ethanol are methane, carbon dioxide, fodder and cereal. Methane digested for cooking... not a priority but on the list.... CO2 to be pumped into the greenhouse for enrichment.... supposed to enhance rapid growth.... just don't visit the plants at the same time... good for plants and not good for people.... still wondering how this might affect the fish in an AP system.... :compress: probably not good.....leftovers make excellent fodder.... as you said. Or return to the soil. I am always looking for ways to return stuff to the soil. Even cut bush grasses... rather than fight hot fires in winter... and lay it as mulch on the "field" we are preparing for the Sorghum ... among other things. I shred reeds etc. Most important that I get a good source of manure going. Including vermicompost.

Talking of grasses I am trying to find out how to learn to thatch grass. I want to thatch the roof of my henhouse. I love the challenge of using what I find at hand. Might be the most important skill in the for-seeable future....

Mulberry trees. I have many just springing up on my farm. Leaves - crude protein of between 15-25% in young leaves - and fruit - excellent for fish ... and even humans (leaves) in extreme conditions... berries excellent for health and so easily grown....... can also be given to hens... eggs. My fish take mulberry very readily. I have chopped some branches of saplings the are growing where I don't want them and they love swimming in between and feast on the leaves.... gone in a few days. They even eat the bark. I have one branch that seems to keep producing more leaves even as it lies in the pond! Has been interesting to watch so I have left it to see. I have both the black(nigra) and the white(alba) mulberries. The black are the tastiest berries but the white is what the Chinese built their silk industry on. I am also interested in producing mulberry wine. Have found a recipe.....

This is the article that first got me interested in mulberries as fodder...
http://www.fao.org/ag/magazine/0009sp2.htm

The prickly pear also grows here easily. Excellent for burn victims too... the gel works like aloe vera gel in soothing and initiating more rapid healing of the skin... plus fodder. I have a number of trees on the farm that provide fodder for wild game and with research I have discovered many uses. One favourite is the white stinkwood... but enough of that... I could go on for hours :D

Livestock and poultry manure are good organic fertilizers for fish farming ..... combined with mulberry cultivation, where silkworms can be raised.... there are some forums discussing this..... allows silkworm pupae to be used as fish feed. Silk speciality products.

Rabbits. Excellent fibres on angoras. My preference is the French angora. Meat rabbits breed rapidly and so excellent source of protein. Droppings easily fed to fish. Pelts - But in no hurry to do this to be honest. :roll: I get teased about killing my fish one day... not very practical... :roll: Hungry children would "ruk me reg" I am sure....

Karakul sheep - very hardy breed. Kept for milking, meat, pelts, and wool. These are a fat-tailed sheep breed. Another breed I am interested in is the Damara. And then the well-known Merino for quality wool that is easily spun. Good yard from a mix of these. Also Angora goats.

Jersey cows. Easily managed and high butter fat. Raw milk in non-allergenic. But TB threat makes this difficult to market. Value added product with long-life storage as cheeses. Excellent yoghurt too. Mulberry yoghurt... :D

Herbs. Lavender grows very easily here. Distillation of lavender oils. Have resourced the equipment but not invested yet. Too much else going on. :compress:

Wind power.... this is an excellent South African site... Shows how can make one or even buy the parts to DIY.
http://windpower.org.za/

Solar power.... this is the latest... most interested in this technology... from this site http://www.iol.co.za/?set_id=1&click_id ... 138C184427
Quote:
The South African solar panels consist of a thin layer of a unique metal alloy that converts light into energy. The photo-responsive alloy can operate on virtually all flexible surfaces, which means it could in future find a host of other applications.

Alberts said the new panels are approximately five microns thick (a human hair is 20 microns thick) while the older silicon panels are 350 microns thick. the cost of the South African technology is a fraction of the less effective silicone solar panels.


Water power.... I am on river frontage. Ram pumps interest me. As do horizontal waterwheels that float on top. But we get sudden downpours and the river has been known to rise 10meters overnight. I lost one of my walls down at the river this way. Would hate to lose the water wheel.

Better stop there... already written a book! :shock:

Nice thread. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Closing the loop
PostPosted: Sep 18th, '08, 08:44 
Almost divorced
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Joined: Dec 9th, '06, 20:31
Posts: 1079
Location: Drongen, Belgium
Gender: Male
Location: Drongen, Belgium
air/air and geothermal heat pump systems might not be the best solution:

see the Littlehouses forum:
Laren Corie (a very helpful specialist in solar heating and passive houses) writes this about them:

"What happens is that a heat pump loses efficiency as its heat source temperature drops.
Some will actually give savings down to around 5°F. Most older one lose their advantage at about freezing.
However, do not expect a COP of three. When the source temperature is around 45°,
even with modern high efficiency heat
pumps, like used for very expensive ground source systems, you will only be getting a system COP of
around 1.5 to 2, like in the range of a combi fridge--freezer, and in the same light, as you point out below...."

.../...

"... Most "active" Solar heating systems can store heat quite well, but require more expensive collectors.
There are very few systems that connect low-cost passive collection, with an isolated heat storage.
My "thermal Attic" approach with racks of small bottles, acting as their own heat exchangers, is one.
What may be the most effective aspect of this, as a heating system is that the heat storage can function
as a very warm heat source for a small heat pump, even during the coldest parts of the winter, in very
cold climates. This "Solar Source Heat Pump" strategy can provide COPs as high as five or better,
at times when an air source heat pump would be at break-even with electric resistance,
in climates where a ground source heat pump would only get a COP of 1.5 to 2.
For a small house such a system can use a very inexpensive portable air conditioner, as its heat pump.
For larger applications, a mini-ductless can be used, and if necessary, larger (but still small) central type air conditioner,
to cool the storage, and pump its heat to the living space... (continued)"

best read the whole story:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LittleHou ... sage/32942
and many posts of Laren on the same subject

see other contributions by Laren Corie:
http://web.axilar.net/LarenCorie/sunhouse.htm
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn/ESSN-Jan2005.pdf

greets

frank


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