Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

TCL, I can't tell anything... they swim, eat and shit. I can speculate... As I watch closely, the fish do not appear to be drunk or listless in any way, quite the opposite; they act as if by design intentionally laying right on the pump, gills down in an attempt to suck parasites from their gills maybe. They appear fascinated with the pump itself. while the fish could care less.

Is it possible, in an attempt to self-medicate on the pump, they could be drowning themselves? I'm clueless.

OB, they are not just any seeds... (They use these seeds to make Black Walnut Stain)


if it is not the seeds... then maybe it's the 1,800mg of Calcium I put in, back in May?

Zen said, It is possible, it has taken all this time to finally begin to shut-down organ system functions, i.e. like the "Albino" fish... it could be liver shuting-down or something.

Black walnut leaves, roots, etc. are toxic to many plants, and horses can be poisoned by them.

http://vet.purdue.edu/depts/addl/toxic/plant45.htm

Yeah, That's the kind of stuff I've also heard before Dave. It's rough stuff. I rack and pickthem up they will stain your hands terribly.

numbers 07/19
with a single feeding yesterday, in the PM of 80grams
water temps at 28c/82f (fish were left wanting)
Ammo Trace to .25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 60ish



Today an AM feeding attempt failed. Fish would not feed, this after left wanting yesterday. Water temps at failed feeding were 24c/75f food removed. will try again in the PM with warmer water temps.

all is watchful

thanks

That's only 1.8gms Don.... doubt that it's the problem.... and you've had several 50%+ water changes since May I believe

Probably just a wait and see game now. I expect that part of the reason the fish are off their feed a bit may well be due to the medication. My catfish will be off their feed a bit whenever I salt the system. Hopefully you can slowly ramp the feed level back up to the previous high when they get back to eating right again. Just make sure to take your time (4 days to a week) ramping the feed back up since a sudden increase in feed will give you the ammonia/nitrite spike again.

Yeah I know... I'm just clutching at straws. It's the only variable out of norm- besides OB's, cheap Chinese Intex pool. It is the weakest link, I mean, other than me.

If I get a Poly-Tuff tank and bury it, I can lay down some piped passive solar heat sub-floor stuff in the hole. However that was next year's money.

I guess I can ride it until they're all dead, then use Urea until Spring or maybe do the work now and be ready for some Winter Brown Trout this September. I don't know...

I'm fried on this for a while, that's for sure.

I am way behind on my HHO project I had planned for July-September.

I think I'm going fishing tonight... I'm tried of netting dead ones. I need one on a hook and in a frying-pan.

Yeah, waiting... I'll bring'm back up slowly, thank TCL.

maybe try a different feed,,,they might just be bored.
I doubt the temp is the problem,,should be feeding at 24C and a 4C temp swing over a day is not unusual.
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm????

High heat will solve all your problems! I'll bring the corn meal and you have that cool cast iron pan........


a quote from the innes book
"the use of quinine at proper strength has neither of those disadvantages (harm plant,or fish) A half grain of quinine sulfate to each gal (US) "

also "a Ph of 5.8 makes life hard for the ich parasites"

so, Salt,quinine,raise the temp to 85F,raise the Ph to 8.5 Is what the innes book says.

Ok before you all say it...



I just drank my last can!

After taking the week-end off and much quite fishing, 8 more found dead.

I have rejected OB's theory of "bad Poly's" in the Intex pool; In lue of my own eyes, I see ICK.

On the dead fish, I can see explosions from the free swim stage of ICK's life cycle as they burst out into the tank from the host. depending on where the ulcer is located on the fish itself, determines how long the fish lives after the eruption.

So, the plan of action is forced by favorable weather conditions and the lack of current cash required for supplemental heating under a buried new tank.

QUESTION: has anyone ever used Water-Bed mattress Heater for supplemental heat under a buried tank? seems perfect with a rheostat, has any tried and failed and why?

Today and tomorrow temps will be in the high 95 -97f/ +35c.
Since the Ick cycle is 3 stages, seems there are treatments at each stage, none of which affect cure in and of itself. Time seems to be ick's biggest enemy, time without a host.

I will go and get a few barrels do a very short, very heavy salt bath/dip maybe 8-10tpp then move fish into another storage barrel salted to 3tpp.

(Zen, do you know a Nurse where I can get some of this Quinine? seems my fish have come down with a case of malaria, typhoid or Yellow Fever?) Seriously, where?

once the fish are removed and aired... I will service the beds each with 50gal. tub & small pump, using water from the tank, hope 50gal. is enough for circ. This water, without fish, will be host-less and the parasites should die with 24hrs, given water temps stay high enough, long enough.

A weak plan but something... doing nothing, it will only get worse, as it will not leave, only hibernate with cooler temps.

thanks all,

A water bed heater would work ok, but afaik they are only around 300w of heating power. May not be enough to do much.

Uninsulated surface loses huge amounts of heat. I've done some tests and found that exposed water surface has an R-value of about 0.1 with no breeze! If you are trying to keep it 10 degrees F above ambient it takes about 15 watts/ft square (350watts/meter). Maybe you can cover part of the pool with some kind of plastic....even saran wrap in contact with the water (a lousy configuration) cut losses by 50% in my tests.

What a pain! I feel for you, mate, as I've just discovered the nasty stuff in my own tank: fish unhappy, appetites down, and little white pinpoints on fins. I was wondering if the stuff tends to get filtered out in the growbeds (I'm picturing a forest of hungry little micro-life snagging screaming parasites as they try to slide by ) or goes through. If it does get snagged, perhaps one could scrub or remove all surfaces in the FT to dislodge the cysts and help disrupt that part of the cycle.

Quinine, eh? So, maybe just spill a G&T into the ft and see if that amt of quinine helps? Unless you know of someone with a cinchona tree..

Good luck! Keep posting!

Don, most people have found that salt is usually sufficient to deal with "Ich"... especially if it's treated at the beginning stages... when the fish start "flashing"....

Hadn't heard of treating with Quinine before.... heating your water would definitely help... but might not be strictly necessary, depending on what your temp currently is...

The short high concentrate salt bath will definitely help.... with most bacterial and fungal infections as well as parasites like Ich....

I'm concerned by your description "depending on where the ulcer is located on the fish itself".......

Ich is a parasite that usually is seen on the skin surface.... not as an actual ulcer....

Sounds more like a bacterial/fungal infection to me... perhaps a secondary infection from a combination of Ich and general stress......

I was hoping to use supplemental heat (waterbed heaters) on the smaller temporary Med and Storage tanks in an effort to keep a sustained temp of over 30c day and night.

I was hoping a heavy dip and heated storage in smaller tanks would force the life cycle.

Rupe the "Ulcer" statement was quoted from a fish book, I don't know the actually cause of death. I was following the death cycle to the end.

I did not mean to imply all these fish have ulcers many appear fine (but dead), other then, the white/yellowish flat crystal like sub-dermal pus packets all over their bodies. In the book this is described as a heavy infestation. Ulcer may be too strong a word, let me say, "Rupture". Agreed, a skin rupture from the exodus of the free swim cycle. Then leading to secondary infections may be the actual causation of death.

After re-reading most of this thread... "These fish" have had a rather stress free environment, save 1 AMMO spike to almost 1.0 lasting maybe 36 hours, some rain and the Coon attack.

Zen, it will take 10 days shipping for that Quinine, so i'm salting and hoping for the best. When the treatment arrives, if needed, the staging tanks will be in place and I'll run the Quinine Regime.

I read so much... I think, I've settled on these guys, I think it's the original link Zen sent me too! http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/diseases.html they have a disease treatment "decision tree" that assisted me.

Back as a Jar-Head, while stationed in Subic Bay they made me take Quinine, nasty tasting shit, gave me heartburn and I belched it the whole week; while others had no problems. Hope the fish don't taste like it in the end.

This Quinine may even be better than heavy salt as TCL has said catfish really do well in heavy salt.