Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

I dont think that amount of chlorine is going to present any problems don. My tap water is chlorinated, and I havnt worried about dechlorinateing it before adding to tanks yet.

Yes there are many dealerships in the US now... here is their international URL http://www.smart.com

I searched throughly the bloomington sight and no Hybrid electric/diesel. Then I searched Canada again... where I first saw this hybrid and it's not there any longer... Then I searched all US speaking websites Internationally, OZ included and can not find this power-train anywhere. I guess I dreamed it, Maybe France... that's where dreams come true, right? lol Sorry.

Sleepe, I have finished reading the posted PDF. file... I realize no one has asked... but the real enemy in the study/paper seemed to be AIR and the fight for more of it, rather than a fight of de-nitrification. As Zen always says, "It's all about the D.O." or better here, for AP, B.O.D.


Chappo, I would say the addition of air would be Mandatory, if you were at some point, to add Mycorrhizal to your tanks with the Molasses. Without Air the Bio Demand from Mycorrhizal alone would cause problems. Normally Myco's help with air in the ground by breaking it up, but water born Myco(s) i thing would be a dead loss in DO.

As a proponet of the Air's Micro Bubble Burst in hydro... the same seems to be working with the fish. Of course I am clueless when it comes to "Fish Gills" and the possible damage to them from Super DO using fine bubbles, course is all I dare try at this point.

I use ceramic membranes, they used to be manufactured by USfilter.com, now Siemens USA. http://www.water.siemens.com/en/Corporate/Technologies/Pages/diffused_aeration_technology.aspx Looks like they have gotten a tad more user friendly, since I made my purchase a few years back. They wouldn't even sell to me directly but that's changed, now it's online. here:http://www.thepurchaseadvantage.com/page/TPA/CTGY/ENVIREX_AIR_DIFFUSERS When I got mine, I had to go back through USFilters to these local guys using them for Live Well Tanks down in FLA. http://www.keepalive.net/ I learned a lot about O2 injection systems and fish tank-well killing! I'm a "big air" kinda guy. A helpful guide, I thought http://keepalive.net/guide.htm.

Thanks OB, it just seemed weird having .01% of N and a whole 1% of chlorine seemed out of place that's all. Better safe then sorry... I'd rather Vet formulas with you guys, then to ASSume and kill everything.

As a former organic hydro guy("twisted", as Sleepe put it), "a dab of this and a dash of that, along with a smidge and a pinch for good measure" I must say, my discipline surprises even me. "I need MORE cowbell." LOL


TCL, Rupe, I moved the pump back to the center and in the approximate area of the now, infamous untasted poop pile. With said move, the and a normal bi-feedings of 115g, I have slightly higher readings today then the previous day's readings when the pump was not centered properly. TCL, I will watch the poo pile and chase it if necessary, Mmmm.

Numbers 7/15
Ammo .25+
Nitrites 0 to trace
Nitrates 60ish
PH 7.2 (like always, i love it)

I have noticed with daily bi-feedings, the fish are less rabid when feeding.

Tomorrow's POA, plumbing multiple port entries to the beds and increase filtration. Tomato Trellis, soon come.

All is well,
thanks

donfish- i was reading one of your earlier posts and i was wondering what the final word on humic acid was. are you using it as an additive in AP. i am very familiar with it's benefits in soil so i would love to hear if you have good results in your systems.

also, you said that your addition of calcium does not effect the system.... i was under the impression that it has an impact on pH

thanks
g

Don,,,agree that extra oxygen needed( be VERYcarefulofcostsand fish danger if thinkingpure O2)
. Before using Molasses in my ponds inThailand I build a u-tube reactor,,,a simple one but quite effective.Ponds NOT AP,,,I'm still questioning the benefit Vs loss in AP. There's a lot of conflicting info on the web.

Re the DO levels was checking downdraft or ETS skimmers. While the foam fractination is not likely to be very effective in freshwater it seems like a really good way of outgassing CO2 and increasing DO, and it only uses a pump.

Your readings sound pretty good to me, you can probably continue as it is or even increase to 120 g twice a day.

I don't remember are your beds flood and drain. Are you using timers for it or siphons or is it some other method?

Hi mountainsky, thanks for asking, gives me a chance to babel, for future misuse.

No humic or anything... i hope to, at some point but I've opted to, NOT dose up the beds/tanks with stuff until I know what to expect, and/or establish a base line standard of the system. Even though I know Humate(s) are present in mature growbeds... how much is too much to add, when speeding up the process manually?

"Less is More", I know but we're talking about time and I have plenty of that... although a small sludge sample from a very mature bed would go along way to promoting a million more questions, we'd like to ask.

I'm trying to stay focused on growing the AP Bacteria, to keep myself busy, I'm a big fungus-microbug kinda guy anyway... Micro bugs are just bugs and they're everywhere, so I'm not sweating them, I believe all micro bugs are good, in their own ways.

Since so much of this AP seems to be a feel and touch, I'm going very slow and trying to forget, what it is, I think I know.

For example, from the other day...
"Zen sent me some news... I guess, I've been very lucky with the Calcium.
Hypercalcemia in fish is very easily done, and could be sudden death to any fish."

This has freaked me out and I have been waiting for the "other shoe to drop" ever since. I may have dodged a bullet (THIS time) because it's been so long but I feel like I've been dragged through a wringer; worried everyday, maybe I've killed them, cuz I added something, the old me feels is harmless without even thinking it through. It's not worth it. In short, I want to learn to drive, before I start jumping ramps. If I guess my best "well informed guess" and I miss, then we die and we never know why.

This brings me full circle back to- Not knowing... and being out of control. Two things I just can't suffer and two of the major reasons why, I want to be a successful Ap'er.

Something I do know, Nature will survive. Nature can adapt to any condition, given enough time to adjust. So play small-ball and don't swing for the fence.

DWC continuous

ROFLMAF!!

Hay Don,
Perhaps I said this before. I think you will get more bio-filter capacity for your grow bed volume if you were running flood and drain. Or maybe if you can add a great deal of dissolved O2 right before the grow beds. When/if you get to the point of adding more grow beds, I definitely recommend looking into doing them flood and drain some how.

I've found that when I set up an aquarium with flood and drain buckets, I can keep the water quality very good. The other aquarium with very little flood and drain but a good amount of DWC and continuous flow gravel, keeps struggling with water quality. I'm not sure how much is due to lack of DO in the DWC bed or the inefficiency of the continuous flow not wetting all the gravel in that bed.

I would normally agree with you, if I were using Hydrotons... however with this pea gravel... it never really seems to drain completely or at least fast enough for me.

When off, and the beds are completely empty, pea gravel is so tightly packed water is still very present in every handful, this after a considerable amount of time beyond a hour of more.

How is O2 being delivered in this scenario?

If these were just plants, I would flood once or twice a day for 15mins. in this media and not at High noon. However that is not enough for these fish/bacteria, I THINK.

You purport less surface/volume filtered and greater air = a higher conversion rate, I'm sure you are correct but I don't think i can achieve it with small pea gravel drain time... unless the physical appearance of water in the gravel is deceiving.

We are talking Bio Air and Not Root air requirements, right? Yes, I do D.O. just before the pump. I knew this might happen at set-up but the cost of 120, 50liter bags of hydrotons was cost prohibitive (39.00US ea) from my guy.

I had to do some tricky things to help get my beds to drain a bit better, like put a bag of lava rock around the drain pipe area to help improve the drain rate of the media there.

How small is your pea gravel? I've got a mix of the washed sea shell and the smallest river rock I could get and though it stays wet when the bed is drained, there is still space for air to move down into the bed. When you drain your beds, are you saying that the pea gravel doesn't let them drain and they are still full of standing water? Or are you saying that the pea gravel is just still very very wet?

For AP flood and drain, you don't necessarily want the media to actually dry out as that will kill the bacteria, you just want the bed to mostly drain out allowing air in among the wet media. An inch or so of water left in the bottom of a bed between flood cycles in pretty normal.

Obviously your plants are doing pretty good with the method so you have enough DO for them, it is the bacteria that might function better with the flood and drain.

Not sure I'm following you completely Don....

Certainly don't understand why your growbeds are remaining wet... ie free standing water in a "handful"....

Certainly would understand the media being wet as you are running a DWC system... and even in most systems this would be true for a period of time after ceasing pumping....

Typically even in a a timer based standpipe drain.... or a siphon based flood and drain system the media may stay wet until the next flood cycle... in the case of timers ... often 15 on / 45 off....

Damp yes... but not "handfuls" of water.... sounds like you're just not draining sufficiently, or at least not sufficiently quickly, if you're still have a water level after 1 hour???.....

But it doesn't sound like you're saying that you have a "level" of water remaining... but more likely that your media is still extremely wet and holding water...

Can't understand how a gravel medium could "hold" water

Even if the gravel was very small.... mean to say even sand drains relatively quickly....



An important point Don..... the flood & drain principle is not just about the addition of oxygen to the water returning to your tank/sump but more importantly about providing oxygen to the lateral roots that take up oxygen....

Otherwise, root rot developes.... partly because the roots are constantly wet, but more importantly because the laterals are unable to absorb oxygen....

Think a normal soil garden.... rain, drain, sun... rain, drain, sun etc.... the lateral roots near the soil surface are able to absorb oxygen...

Whereas after a flood situation... where the crop may be submerged for several days.... the crop fails and rots unless the flood subsides within a set period of time....

Hydroponics/NFT works because although the lower roots are constantly submerged... the upper lateral (surface) roots are not... and can still absorb oxygen....

NFT is also usually run at a reasonably fast flow rate which also assists, and often the channels in an NFT system are equiped with supplementary air..

Flood and drain is definitely the way to go IMHO... and siphons "suck".... a perfect combination...

Good for plants, fish and bacteria....

yeah, there's no standing water unless i leave in the "stand pipe" It drains very quickly

At construction- thinking drainage... I have at least a 4"/100mm drop from the feed end to the drop end.

I was referring to the water retention in the gravel itself; no where as good as hydrotons for drainage but with more surface area, hoping...

I have raised the stand pipes and in the process adding multiple water distribution ports along the length of the bed; again hoping to shunt as much of the bi-pass valve as possible, forcing more through the filters by volume.

Root rot will not occur if you have enough DO. I have see it too many times.