Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Can't say I agree with you there Angie..... given the propensity to breed and fast growth rate of Tilapia..... and the expressed intention to sex and grade...and Chappos point about male/female growth rates....

I think that there will be a constant and substantial cost involved in personnel hatching, sexing, seperating, grading, moving, feeding, managing, harvesting, marketing, transporting etc....

They're going to be involved with thousands of the little things....

And may not have the knowledge to start with.... and to what point of growout and return.... for what cost inputs....

Again I think it comes back to defining just what the primary intention of the business is...

To grow fingerlings to supply the market....

To grow fish to supply the market....

To grow vegetables to supply the market...

Then do the cost analysis, break even analysis on each component.... especially with the factors of setup costs...

Then look at the alternative methods of production and costs.... it might be cheaper to do a straight pond based aquaculture if the primary focus is "fish".

Given the lack or constraint of electricity, filtration... a large scale hatchery, growout facility is severely compromised and probably unprofitable in a recirculating tank system...

Unless they address those variables... and employ personell with the appropriate level of knowledge..... all cost factors....

Now if they were to just concentrate on AP.... then I think some of the shortcomings are lessened.... and management of the systems, once established becomes less time and labour consuming.... leaving them to monitor/adjust water parameters, probably a minimal investment in time and labour....freeing their time and labour to plant, nuture and harvest vegetables....

When needed harvest the fish as a "bonus" product...

Another thing that hasn't been touched on Synapto.... is regulations and licencing....

Here in OZ EPA polluiton licences to release/dispose of nutrient water have increased from anywhere from $2-$3000 per year to an additional $6500 per year per licence...

It's also expected that water licensing fees will triple this year.....

There's also licencing and regulatory issues relating to Food Safety, Fish Translocation etc....

Obviously such things are specific to each country.... but consider the impact to the proposed business not only in terms of up front and continuing costs fro compliance...

But the cost of NOT complying and the potential ramifications both to the business and possibly to yourself as consultant Synapto....

Are you legally, dutifully bound to at least advice your client of compliance issues?

Given that food will be sold to the public, if contamination lead to an outbreak of food poisoning or worse death.... that could be traced back to the operation....

What affect would substantial fines, closure of the business until compliance issues were resolved, closure althogether.... or legal compensation/fines have on the profitability and personal liability of the business and owners....

And what if any liability do/would you incur Synapto?

Rupert, I forgot to mention that all the fry/fingerlings should be male, either as Chappo had suggested or through breeding hybrids that only produce male offspring.
Yes, sexing would not be viable in this case- it would be easier to source new females for replacement broodstock but I still stand firm that an on-site hatchery facility is a better way to go, as long as it fits your situation/budget.
For commercial AP, you don't have the luxury of harvesting the entire crop of fish and wait for the next crop to mature- you have to have several crops in the pipeline. It is not just a matter of maximizing the fish aspect but plant nutrients cannot drop to that extreme. To keep that kind of intensity, I think it would be very difficult to maintain that with purchased fry stock and there again, you have the potential of bringing in diseases.
I still feel that a lot of grading can be done with just the size of the holes in the mesh barriers, the fish will sort themselves to a large degree. Anyone care to try it and prove me wrong?

If only MALE fry and fingerlins are stocked.... then there is no need for a "hatchery"....

The hatchery tank and "female" growout tank just become "male" Tilapia growout tanks...

4 tanks... with fish at different stages of growth.... easy.... and my point....

If the emphasis is on an AP system to produce the veges, with the fish as a secondary (albeit profitable) income stream....

Then it becomes simply a matter of managing a single integrated system....

KISS..... no need for "hatchery".... no need to "sex".... no need to "grade".... no need for "mesh barriers".......

Just stock the tanks at intervals.... grow them and sell them.... while the plants keep doing their thing.....

But the CLIENT specified otherwise..... and I think needs to be convinced that it's either unnecessary or unprofitable.... and probably wont be convinced until Synapto can show that it's just not profitable....

Angie ,, I AM doing this commercially ( making a loss , lol ) in Thailand ,, it just is NOT worth the head-ache to produce your own fingerlings IF you have a solid , reliable supplier.
My brother-in-law is sent to get fingerlings each 2 months ,, slower growers etc fill the void. We have a reasonably consistent supply of matured fish for sale.
The work and cost involved in breeding and feeding , is simply wasted time and money .

I buy my TOP quality fingerlings at less than US 1 cent!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Admitedly my product only sells at US $ 2 per kilo ,, but that 1 cents is still almost totally insignificant.
The most significant costs involved are food, floowed by labour and power.

I doubt the reality would be significantly different in South Africa.

Different area of the world and you, who live there, would know better than me.
As for myself, once I am growing my ideal fish, I will be breeding and growing my own stock out and as I will be using commercial feed, once I am established, that is the next thing I will secure- my own feed mill. The mentality here in commercial agriculture- is you get BIG and you get integrated- control as many aspects of your operation as you can. We have shipper-growers (one word) that for instance, grow lettuce, pick, ship it to processing, cut it, wash it, bag it, and sell it directly to the grocery chains as a finished product. They control everything- from farm to shelf and cut out all of the middlemen and reap the entire markup. Anyone here, who knows business, knows that can be substantial. The bigger aquaculture operations are also doing the same thing but it is not well known. How can you compete if your competitor has control over your feed?
My suggestions are just that- suggestions. The argument for both sides has been presented. The decision ultimately lies with the customer who foots the bill to have his system built. And time will always tell which is the better of the two ideas.
You still have not thoroughly convinced me but it was interesting none the less.

"your own feed-mill" ,, now your talking ..... feed is a significant cost and one that needs to be supplied fresh.
BYAP grown vegies ,, mixed with mashed non performing Tilapia?

OOPS ,, vegie off-cuts,, not the consumer quality ones.

Chappo, you said that feed was one of your greatest expenses, how come you aren't producing your own feed for the Tilapia? They are mostly vegetarian.

Where do you find enough vegetarians to feed the fish?
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On a serious note, where do you end this quest - grow your own plants to feed the feed mill? A year like this in the US and soy/corn/wheat will be high. This will also cause [many other crops to have more value.

One must not forget all of this requires more machinery, labor and supervision....

Ron

It does all depend on so many things. I expect that the first hurdle will be 1 convincing the clients that power for pumping and aeration are needed even through tilapia are pretty forgiving fish. Then Getting them to decide what the focus of the project really is so Synapto knows in what direction to drive things once the greenhouses are built and tanks arrive.

I understand the desire in a business to be able to do/control everything but I have seen this way of going at things fail when some one tries to do it all at once. It needs to be broken into manageable chunks that will still be profitable one step at a time.

Like start out with a grow out system for male tilapia and as the client gains in experience and sees the amount of labor, feed, etc involved they can then add to the operation in small steps.

For breeding/grading/sexing fish, I can tell you I would not want to do it from big round tanks. The only way I've seen it done that looked very manageable to me, was in raceways or rectangular tanks. A barrier could be slid down on one end and moved along the length of either to corrale the fish to the end for hand grading/sexing or grading mesh/bars could be brought along the tank to separate the different sizes of fish. To have enough breeding stock and fry production probably would not take a huge amount of tank space and in my opnion should be only concidered as an add on at a later date if they decide to put some raceways or rectangular tanks in someday.

I will assume that this question is addressed to me? The feed mill will be a must for me, if I get to the actual size I want to operate, I will be using tons of feed per day so I am already looking at machinery, labor, supervision, grid free self-reliance, even automation. Big aquaculture is big business- like I've said before, the AP is only a water treatment for me- it's the fish that I want. But in the process of treating the water, I will be left with a high volume, low cost side product- lettuce.
Do you know what the cost of wholesale lettuce is at the Los Angeles terminal this week? Leaf lettuce is 32 cents and Romaine is 33 1/2 cents per head. Look it up for yourself.

http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/ams.fet ... eportsMore

I have no interest in growing the crops for my fish, unless I have to.
Farmers don't reap the benefits of their labor- why do you think that grain farmers are subsidized? They would be in the hole, even with a good growing season, if they operated without that safety net and that was BEFORE everything exploded in price. This is one thing I don't think the FAO is aware of- if the U.S. subsidies were totally removed, farmers would switch to something that was profitable on it's own and that wouldn't be wheat, rice, or even corn, despite the ethonol boom. Who would grow our main food staples then, when even China is importing and most countries have limited exporting to protect the grains for their own people?
Fruits and vegetables are not subsidized because farmers can make a profit but as you can see selling retail is a much better option. But when you're talking a million head of lettuce a year, your choices become more limited- either integrating or wholesale.

Angie who told you they where vegetarian???? That's 90% bull droppings.
Tilapia love to filter algie ,, what is NOT mentioned is the fact that algie is FULL of minute animals.
baby tilapia are outright AGRO hunters ,, they think nothing of eating their little sister if they don't have enough protein ,, and even then they sometimes do it anyway.
It's a b it like whales ,, people see them as so placid ,, they are actually excellent hunters ,, it is just that their prey is small.

Look at any commercial pellets for Tilapia and they contain a large percentage of fish-oil.

A feed - mill ,, once again ,, we need to talk cost / benefit. The factory making pellets sells to me at well under US$1 per kilo,..... they can do this because they buy fish oil in lots of 100,000 litres.They buy the other bulk in 100 tonne lots and even the vitamins arrive in 44 gallon containers. It simply is a matter of purchasing power and size of orders ,, I could not dream to make pellets at the price they sell them for.
I do suppliment as best I can ,, MORINGA makes up about 10-15% of their food and any left over salad type scraps are thrown their way.
Currently i fertilise the ponds for an algal bloom ,, but once I switch to AP and substantially increase stocking levels i will desist from that.

http://www.californiaaquacultureassocia ... cf=tilapia
Food
Tilapia can survive on a diversity of food. Algae is probably their most common food in the wild. On fish farms they are fed a high-protein pelletted feed.

Although I cannot personally raise this species, I am aware that they also need protein, especially when they are young but if I remember correctly, that drops down to about 30% as they mature; that is still 60% vegetable matter.

Perhaps I shouldn't generalize but neither should you.
Who told you that whale prey is small? The sperm whale hunts the largest prey in the world- one never seen full size by man but in one case, on the hide of a beach stranded sperm whale, left behind a scar, caused by suction cup, that was 5' across- the Giant Squid.